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#179770 - 08/24/05 12:12 PM Re: George Dillman on National Geographic [Re: MMAA]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
That'll be brilliant! I'm about hour outside of London to! Where about's is your sister-in-laws home? To convince your wife, tell her that I live in Southend on Sea, one of the UK's top seaside resorts. It is where all of the coolest people in the UK go in their spare time. Any of our UK forum members will vouch for it!

If you ever want a chat offline about stuff or when you get over here to the UK my email address is gavin@gosokempo.com...drop me a line I think we could have a few interesting discussions!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#179771 - 08/24/05 12:38 PM Re: George Dillman on National Geographic [Re: Gavin]
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
My, My, My...well Gavin isn't this a fine kettle of fish you've gotten us into?!?

Where to start?

I'll stay off of the NTKO because everyone should know my opinions on this.

DKI is a wonderful organization, with nothing but the best people you could ever hope to meet. There are also some very talented martial artists that belong to the org as well. There is among many of the top students of George a wealth of kyusho/tuite information that one would be a moron to pass up but does everyone who wears a DKI patch have what we will call 'the stuff'...no

That being said, what you see in the seminars is not 'the stuff' either. The seminars are a marketinng tool. They are meant to impress martial artists who do not have any of this information that it would be a good thing to get nvolved with DKI and host more seminars, buy books, videos and what not. That's all. The deeper information is not passed on during these sessions, I don't care what they are labled. 'Super Secret - Advanced KO clinic' is nothing more than a regular seminar. Some deeper information is passed on at the Camps in Deer Lake, but most of the best information is passed on over beer and karaoke or at dinner. Hell one of the best techniques and deeper meanings
I ever recieved from George was while waiting for his plane to depart at the airport (hurt like hell too).

So I guess the message about DKI is that it is like a brotherhood and the more you get ensconced the better secret hand-shakes you will learn. But know this, the information is there.

I know that DKI's numbers have been dropping over the last few years, and they have lost some very key people. This may account for the push of the NTKO/energy stuff. George may feel like he has to do something drastic to keep the rest on board. Rick Moneymaker split off first and formed TKI(To-Ri Karate Institute) then the Dragon Society and now DSI a few top people went with this wave. Next to go was Evan Pantazi when he formed Kyusho International and took Jim Corn, Mark Kline and Gary Rooks. Which really blows my mind. Especially Mark who followed George around like a puppy for years (even dressing like him). IIRC Jack Hogan has left as well and taken a group with him. I have the utmost respect for Ed Lake and Will Higginbotham who have stayed true to George through all of this. So it may be that this is an effort to keep people from jumping ship.

I will be seeing George on the 24th of Sept. and plan to talk about all of this with him. For those who don't know I used to be the DKI rep for Texas. George (and Kim) are still good friends and I'll go to the mat to personally defend the character of George and DKI.

Gavin...
Russell is 'cows tits' over there across the pond. You will not find any better information in the UK on PP fighting, waveforms and BAR. I dont feel that you would benefit from DKI because you are too far to get anthing other than the occasional seminar.

I will e-mail you privately about the DSI.


--KM
_________________________
Yeah, if you want to get dry-humped and dookie-licked.

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#179772 - 08/24/05 01:02 PM Re: George Dillman on National Geographic [Re: Kempoman]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Oh, Kempoman me old mucker was wondering how long it would take for you to pipe up!

Even though I have said some pretty damning things about the DKI, I hope I've still made it clear the I hold both George Dillman and Leon Jay in the highest regards as MA's. I just really wanted to express my sheer disapointment with the route that they are taking at the moment.

For the anti-Dillman forum members, hopefully KM's comments will help you see beyond all the bullshit that has done. I'd be really interested to hear what George has to say about it all.

Scott - Thanks for the advice about Russell, not that I really had any doubts, but its always good to know that someone of your experience holds him it such high regards. If I survive the week I'll be sure to post my experiences. Trouble is, I was a bit cheeky to Russell over the email and he said he is going to set Herol Graham on me....so I'm not holding high hopes of returning in one piece! Can't weight for the scoop of the DSI, sounds interesting1

Thanks to everyone who has taken part in this discussion!

Gav
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#179773 - 08/24/05 01:21 PM Re: George Dillman on National Geographic [Re: Gavin]
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Quote:

Even though I have said some pretty damning things about the DKI, I hope I've still made it clear the I hold both George Dillman and Leon Jay in the highest regards as MA's. I just really wanted to express my sheer disapointment with the route that they are taking at the moment.




Absolutley. I did not take anything you have said as anti-Dillman.

Quote:

Scott - Thanks for the advice about Russell, not that I really had any doubts, but its always good to know that someone of your experience holds him it such high regards. If I survive the week I'll be sure to post my experiences. Trouble is, I was a bit cheeky to Russell over the email and he said he is going to set Herol Graham on me....so I'm not holding high hopes of returning in one piece!




Bombs away!

Quote:

Can't weight for the scoop of the DSI, sounds interesting




Oh, you have no idea. The entire DKI/DSI saga with a sprinkle of Oyata people would delight for days on end.

--KM
_________________________
Yeah, if you want to get dry-humped and dookie-licked.

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#179774 - 08/24/05 01:57 PM Re: George Dillman on National Geographic [Re: MMAA]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
fair enough, good on you

- personally the DKI seems to have its ethics all mixed up, and thats a good enough reason that I wount bother training with them, whatever knowledge is avalaible.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#179775 - 08/24/05 02:27 PM Re: George Dillman on National Geographic [Re: shoshinkan]
Jango Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 28
Gavin and MMAA you all are welcome to come down to the dojoi I pracitce in. Check the site out www.zendoryu.com there are KO videos, no touch ko videos and location of the place. It is in London give the place a call or even better just show up and have a look. People from Manchester come to this dojo thats to show you how good the man is.

Ok as for the no-touch Ko I think it definatley won't work on the streets yet. As for it being real I honestly don't know maybe it affects some people and not others? Is that the reason G Dillman believes in it?. I hate the fact that people think that no touch ko makes up the whole of kyusho-jitsu, it's only a very small part of it. I must say PP ko's are for real though I was once a disbeliever but after I nearly accidently knocked out students and friends with just a small tap and have had it demonstarted on me I definatley think it works. I dont know about the kyusho jitsu classes in america but the one am doing is pretty must mostly self defense techniques. Like 80 percent. I say this because alot of people say the techniques won't work on the streets, that we only do kata and no touch bs. Thats not true. I would recommend to anyone who doubts PP to attend a good class.

Regards,
Jango.

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#179776 - 08/24/05 03:23 PM Re: George Dillman on National Geographic [Re: Jango]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Guys, I want to apologize for my earlier, immature outburst. Having read a bit more into this thread, I feel that my response was out of line.

I have respect for George Dillman's past accomplishments. I find it hard to divorce my feelings of those and his current mass-marketing tactics. His current direction is disturbing, but that does not negate what he has done in the past.

I have also seen Leon Jay on video (thanks, RazorFoot), and was quite impressed with what I saw. Again, the current direction with the NTKO's is very disturbing to me, but does not negate his other skills.

I am just frustrated at the beating that MA is taking when the mass-marketing approach is being heralded as the new direction for MA.

Blah.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#179777 - 08/24/05 03:46 PM Re: George Dillman on National Geographic [Re: MattJ]
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Uhh which immature outburst?

Quote:


Oh. My. God.

That was the biggest bunch of BS I have seen in a while. Pathetic!!!!!

A RIDDLE WRAPPED IN A MYSTERY INSIDE AN ENIGMA THAT IS COVERED IN COMPLETE BS.

I had to stop watching when I saw the jr. black belt throwing a Chi-ball. Garbage. I can't believe a formerly reputable martial artist promotes this crap, and I further can't believe that anyone else FALLS FOR IT!!

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! IDIOTS!!!!!!!






You are very correct in your assment of all of this Matt. I wish that the direction was different as well.

--KM
_________________________
Yeah, if you want to get dry-humped and dookie-licked.

Top
#179778 - 08/24/05 10:42 PM Re: George Dillman on National Geographic [Re: Kempoman]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
Kempoman,

Why do people move on from the DKI, there are a number of reasons (in no particular order).

1. Personal differences with the group head.
2. A desire to keep ones students cashflow for other choices.
3. A desire to make money instead of sharing it with someone else.
4. As most large fields of study have multiple areas where different opinions might change the nature of study, and the martial arts are no simple field of study, it is a natural occurance when some change their points of view and move on to explore them with like minded individuals.
5. The individuals in the group, while obtaining information of value from the group, are really not full time students of the group head (ie spending decades non-stop to learn the art), so there is less reason to remain there once immediate needs have been fulfilled.
6. When you're selling something, the purchaser has the right to change their mind, after all it is their money.
7. Perhaps people said and did things to obtain what they wished, and then reaching that point, other personal opinions hold greater merit.
8. They're following the fine example their leader set. When the leader trains a bit and moves on for personal growth, gain, fame, and everyone saw it occur, they have every reason to follow the same fine example and try hard to reach the same pinnacle of success where their own students in turn can turn their back on them too.
9 And of course the ever popular 'All of the Above'.

Just a few thoughts,
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#179779 - 08/25/05 05:31 AM Re: George Dillman on National Geographic [Re: Jango]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Jango, thank you for the kind offer. Your Sensei Paul Bowman is an awesome Martial Artist, I've had the pleasure of meeting him briefly at a couple of seminars, I was really impressed with the demo I saw him do at the first SENI. He is a really nice guy, and I think someone would catch a cold if they attacked, the guys tiny! A pocket sized killing machine! I'm really really busy at the moment plus I really want to concerntrate on my Shiatsu and OCI studies at the moment.

Hopefully this thread has actually done the DKI some good, its given the guys here to actually chat with DKI members and also given the DKI a chance to show what else the DKI is upto other than NTKO's. Fingers crossed that some lessons will be learnt by the DKI's top brass over the whole saga. Here's wishing the DKI a long and bright future!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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