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#179142 - 08/17/05 06:00 PM Have you ever hit first, and is it right? *DELETED*
Passage Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 6
Post deleted by Passage

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#179143 - 08/17/05 09:03 PM Re: Have you ever hit first, and is it right? [Re: Passage]
BuDoc Offline
The doctor will see you now

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1067
Loc: USA and Abroad
Two parts. Equally important.

First. You are completely wrong. You started the fight regardless of what the kid said. Maturity is what you need to work on.

Secondly. I always try to hit first. But I don't start fights. This may be confusing.

If a fight is emminent, I make sure that my strikes land first. This doesn't mean that I swing first, it just means that I evade and counter more quickly. Kinda like being the fastest draw in a gunfight.

If your throwing front kicks and know how to mount someone to fight, then you have way to much training to be this out of control. Even if you are young and haven't been training long.

Definately apologize and hope that there are no legal or social reprucussions.

Then apologize to your teacher for disgracing yourself and him/her.

Page
_________________________
Medical Advisor for the Somolian National Sumo Team

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#179144 - 08/17/05 09:59 PM Re: Have you ever hit first, and is it right? *DELETED* [Re: BuDoc]
CatnPhx Offline
Member

Registered: 07/08/05
Posts: 136
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Post deleted by CatnPhx

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#179145 - 08/17/05 10:39 PM Re: Have you ever hit first, and is it right? [Re: CatnPhx]
Eric4444 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 430
I believe the fight should have been avoided. Infact I believe it could easily have been from what was said. However I don't agree with apologizing to his teacher, I never have. Honestly I don't think its your teachers business what you do outside of class, unless you're going around beating up old ladies in a Gi advertising your school.
_________________________
To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." ~ Sun Tzu ~

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#179146 - 08/17/05 10:49 PM Re: Have you ever hit first, and is it right? [Re: Eric4444]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
Cat, Pas and Eric,
having a little "-Do" in your Art is never a bad thing... especially in a liability-happy culture.

After you are past the legal protection of being a minor (I assume by the attitude), you'll see how the modern adult world works.
Quick reflexes always trumps quick temper.

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#179147 - 08/18/05 10:21 AM Re: Have you ever hit first, and is it right? *DEL [Re: Passage]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
If you can justify it to a court of law as self defense and are sure that your opponent will attack you (there are a number of indicators, which may be found on other threads here), hitting first is perfectly ok.
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#179148 - 08/23/05 03:48 AM Re: Have you ever hit first, and is it right? *DEL [Re: Leo_E_49]
Shotokan_Nut Offline
Member

Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 43
Loc: Liverpool, England
if a fight is about to go down you have to make the other person have second thoughts. Use the KIAI! to discourage (because you dont want to fight a screaming maniac) and look as if the guy has just came into your house and spat on your grandmother. It worked for me against a TKD blackbelt.
Also if your fighting 3 people and 1 has a weapon, you can kill the one holding the weapon. If that doesnt discourage the other 2 i dont know what will
_________________________
"There Are Many Imitations, But Only One Shotokan" Gichin Funakoshi

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#179149 - 09/12/05 10:50 PM Re: Have you ever hit first, and is it right? *DEL *DELETED* [Re: Passage]
mooimacow Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/05
Posts: 29
Post deleted by Victor Smith

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#179150 - 09/13/05 01:01 AM Re: Have you ever hit first, and is it right? *DEL [Re: mooimacow]
ryan22 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 15
i didnt get to read the original post so not real sure what the story is but i hit first if a fight can not be avoided and someone has made a threat to u then he has made an assault u have to prove 3 things that he was there to do harm not if a dude calls u up or something and that he was physically able to do harm not if he was in a wheel chair and that u believed he would carry out what he said that is what i was told by a police officer in my area so i will take it for what it is worth... action is faster then reaction i think that most fights can be avoided but if u feel it is not and the person is pressing on u then they have commited assault and u do have the right to defend urself
ryan

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#179151 - 10/01/05 05:25 PM Re: Have you ever hit first, and is it right? *DEL [Re: ryan22]
Enray Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 36
Loc: Tennessee
Hitting first is fine if somethings about to go down, especially if you're cornered. It's like when you corner a dog or a spider. They don't really bite you just for the heck of it. They just want to escape and you're in their way.

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#179152 - 10/02/05 02:14 PM Re: Have you ever hit first, and is it right? *DEL [Re: Enray]
UofM Shorin Ryu Offline
Resident Forum Breakdancer

Registered: 02/07/05
Posts: 981
Quote:

Hitting first is fine if somethings about to go down, especially if you're cornered.





And if you have no qualms about getting your butt sued by the victim of your assault....
_________________________
Alea iacta est ~ Gauis Julius Caesar Ne quis nimis ~ Solon Nuts to cancer ~ Sanchin31

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#179153 - 10/02/05 02:50 PM Re: Have you ever hit first, and is it right? *DEL [Re: UofM Shorin Ryu]
Enray Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 36
Loc: Tennessee
It's not really assault if your defending yourself. You just can't beat the guy up if you're able to get away.

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#179154 - 10/03/05 11:16 AM Re: Have you ever hit first, and is it right? *DEL [Re: UofM Shorin Ryu]
funstick5000 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 759
Loc: West Yorkshire, England
Quote:

Quote:

Hitting first is fine if somethings about to go down, especially if you're cornered.





And if you have no qualms about getting your butt sued by the victim of your assault....




you wouldn't get sued for a pre-emptive strike if you were in a self-defense situation. its just a lot harder to prove it was self-defense but thats a lawyers job to prove to the judge and jury not your own.
_________________________
Go seek the advise of a qualified instructor.

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#179155 - 10/03/05 12:42 PM Re: Have you ever hit first, and is it right? *DEL [Re: funstick5000]
UofM Shorin Ryu Offline
Resident Forum Breakdancer

Registered: 02/07/05
Posts: 981
First off, with the absurd stories of muggers and burgurlars winning lawsuits against their potential victims, I'm gonna have to decline accepting your statement about not getting sued.....I live in America, the sue-happy land of Lawyers.


We actually addressed this issue in class one day.
(which means another sifu said story)
Sifu said that if you are going to hit first:

1. make sure you're hands are up in a non-confrontational manner, and your first movement is BACK, ie, away from the problem. That lets the police, jury, judge know that your original intent was to avoid the situation.

2. make sure you don't use "excessive force" in the situation. I put it in parentheses because this can vary on the situation. Ex, if he's some massive strong arm dude and you think he has a weapon and you break his hand, jury might take your side.
If he's a scrawny punk kid and you break his nose, collarbone, wrists, legs, fracture 3 ribs...etc, jury might be inclined to side with the other guy.

And I WOULD make it my job to prove whether it was a self-defense situation or not, since it's my butt that's gonna be rommin with "Bubba" in jail, not the lawyer's.
_________________________
Alea iacta est ~ Gauis Julius Caesar Ne quis nimis ~ Solon Nuts to cancer ~ Sanchin31

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#179156 - 10/04/05 11:24 AM Re: Have you ever hit first, and is it right? *DEL [Re: UofM Shorin Ryu]
funstick5000 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 759
Loc: West Yorkshire, England
i can't really speak for america here but what you (/your sifu) said is true, you would also look better if you called him an ambulence or ran away. witnesses also help.

sadly sue-happy culture is making its way over her as well.
_________________________
Go seek the advise of a qualified instructor.

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#179157 - 10/04/05 01:12 PM Re: Have you ever hit first, and is it right? *DEL [Re: funstick5000]
Christie Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 872
Loc: Waterloo, ON
You don't just learn offensive skills in Martial Arts, its called Self Defence for a reason.... not Self Attack if you think they might.

If I thought they were going to attack, I'd be prepared to defend and counter, not hit first.

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#179158 - 10/04/05 06:22 PM Re: Have you ever hit first, and is it right? *DEL [Re: Christie]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Quote:

You don't just learn offensive skills in Martial Arts, its called Self Defence for a reason.... not Self Attack if you think they might.

If I thought they were going to attack, I'd be prepared to defend and counter, not hit first.




Ofcurse you learn offensive skills! I'm on the other side of the coin with this one. If an attack is iminent,I'm dictating how it goes down,not waiting.
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#179159 - 10/04/05 11:17 PM Re: Have you ever hit first, and is it right? *DEL [Re: SANCHIN31]
Christie Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 872
Loc: Waterloo, ON
Quote:

Quote:

You don't just learn offensive skills in Martial Arts, its called Self Defence for a reason.... not Self Attack if you think they might.

If I thought they were going to attack, I'd be prepared to defend and counter, not hit first.




Ofcurse you learn offensive skills! I'm on the other side of the coin with this one. If an attack is iminent,I'm dictating how it goes down,not waiting.




Depends on what kind of person you are, I've been told I'm "too nice." Ie. I let people walk all over me, in a self defence situation, I don't even know if I could ever hit the person, I hope I never have to find out.

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#179160 - 10/05/05 07:00 AM Re: Have you ever hit first, and is it right? *DEL [Re: Christie]
jamesd Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 145
Loc: Essex,England
Hi Everyone,

The way how i see it is, a good defence requires a good offence, sometimes you have to seize the moment and strike first, i've done it a few times but when i have done, i can assure you my actions were purely justified! regards,

James
_________________________
www.hardfasthandway.com

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#179161 - 10/05/05 04:58 PM Re: Have you ever hit first, and is it right? *DEL [Re: Christie]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

You don't just learn offensive skills in Martial Arts, its called Self Defence for a reason.... not Self Attack if you think they might.

If I thought they were going to attack, I'd be prepared to defend and counter, not hit first.




Ofcurse you learn offensive skills! I'm on the other side of the coin with this one. If an attack is iminent,I'm dictating how it goes down,not waiting.




Depends on what kind of person you are, I've been told I'm "too nice." Ie. I let people walk all over me, in a self defence situation, I don't even know if I could ever hit the person, I hope I never have to find out.




I believe in self preservation.A few years back a man came to my house late at night,angry,and looking for a fight because of what he heard I said. He steps back while yelling starts to take off his shirt. Should I have waited for him to attack me? Or hit first and slam him onto a doghouse like I did.
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#179162 - 10/07/05 11:04 PM Re: Have you ever hit first, and is it right? *DEL [Re: Christie]
CatnPhx Offline
Member

Registered: 07/08/05
Posts: 136
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

You don't just learn offensive skills in Martial Arts, its called Self Defence for a reason.... not Self Attack if you think they might.

If I thought they were going to attack, I'd be prepared to defend and counter, not hit first.




Ofcurse you learn offensive skills! I'm on the other side of the coin with this one. If an attack is iminent,I'm dictating how it goes down,not waiting.




Depends on what kind of person you are, I've been told I'm "too nice." Ie. I let people walk all over me, in a self defence situation, I don't even know if I could ever hit the person, I hope I never have to find out.




Christie - This is what concerns me with my girls, especially my oldest. She is really nice. She has great skills but doesn't have a mean bone in hear body. I'm trying to teach her how to self-preserve and attack when needed and still be a nice girl.

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#179163 - 10/07/05 11:14 PM Re: Have you ever hit first, and is it right? *DEL [Re: CatnPhx]
UofM Shorin Ryu Offline
Resident Forum Breakdancer

Registered: 02/07/05
Posts: 981
When you finish with them, come on over and tell me the secret to building mean bones.
_________________________
Alea iacta est ~ Gauis Julius Caesar Ne quis nimis ~ Solon Nuts to cancer ~ Sanchin31

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#179164 - 10/08/05 02:42 PM Re: Have you ever hit first, and is it right? *DEL [Re: UofM Shorin Ryu]
Fightknight Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 28
If you know the fight is a go definitely hit first but hope there aren't a lot of witnesses. Unfortunately, a pre-emptive attack may be necessary but it is a hard sell to the cops. That said if you are going to get hurt bad if you don't then the option available is clear. I agree that if you can you should assume a hands up, distancing situation and in a crowd make loud and clear you do not want to fight. That way if it happens you will have made your case undeniable.
That said if it's me or him and or my family it's going to be him if I have any say in it.

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#179165 - 10/22/05 09:47 PM Re: Have you ever hit first, and is it right? *DEL [Re: Enray]
h2whoa Offline
Member

Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 427
Loc: Fiji
You must never strike first, you would only shame yourself!
_________________________
No matter how fashionable it is on Krypton, I will not wear my underwear on the outside of my Gi!!

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#179166 - 10/22/05 10:18 PM Re: Have you ever hit first, and is it right? *DEL [Re: h2whoa]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
I disagree, there are some situations in which the shame of preemption is preferable to the alternative.
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#179167 - 10/22/05 10:36 PM Re: Have you ever hit first, and is it right? *DEL [Re: Leo_E_49]
h2whoa Offline
Member

Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 427
Loc: Fiji
Quote:

I disagree, there are some situations in which the shame of preemption is preferable to the alternative.




An example please!

*bows respectfully*
_________________________
No matter how fashionable it is on Krypton, I will not wear my underwear on the outside of my Gi!!

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