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#177958 - 08/13/05 06:12 PM Goju Groundfighting
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
My instructor has incorporated groundfighting in with our regular goju curriculum. Our school is a unique goju school in that we are only somewhat traditional and only teach a few kata as well.
He has a background in wrestling and is very good at his groundfighting techniques.I've been doing groundfighting for a few years now with him and I enjoy it.We also have two man drills that go through alot of the groundfighting (groundfighting kata if you will).
We do alot of techniques including takedowns, guards,trips,locks,chokes,etc...
My question is what do you think of this kind of curriculum? Is it straying away from what goju is about? Or is it right on track with what a good self defense program should have?
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#177959 - 08/13/05 06:29 PM Re: Goju Groundfighting [Re: SANCHIN31]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
Whilst it sounds very interesting and suitiable for a solid self defense program,

I would have a problem calling it goju ryu, as it would seem a progression into something else Brian, which isnt meant as a bad thing by the way but just looking at it 'classically'.
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#177960 - 08/13/05 06:45 PM Re: Goju Groundfighting [Re: shoshinkan]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
We call it All American Goju Karate.We are not associated with any other schools and are not biased against non-Americans. Some people recently thought this based on the name.
Progression is what it's all about,no?

This is what I feel keeps it from being traditional goju to me and I've been to two other goju schools.
1) Not all kata are learned (or even known)
2) Groundfighting
3) Four belts. white,green,brown,and black
4) We speak and count in english

I ran into some problems when I visited other goju schools.

"Your this belt and you don't know this kata or this move!"

comments? questions?
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#177961 - 08/13/05 07:02 PM Re: Goju Groundfighting [Re: SANCHIN31]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
LOL Brian,

I am not qualified to make serious comments or judgements on what any one does, however all american piece in the name does imply that your dojo is independant from the traditional goju ryu, which is fine in my book. However teaching goju ryu without the senior instructors knowing the full kata of the system would seem a little wrong IMO.

progression, I can honestly say I prefer regression..................................... LOL LOL

I do like your belt system, makes total sense to me !
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#177962 - 08/13/05 07:35 PM Re: Goju Groundfighting [Re: SANCHIN31]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Well, brother, you are definitely going to get some opinions on this.

As practiced for utility, I think it sounds like a great self defense program.

As a static embodiment of Goju, it may be lacking somewhat. However, if I remember correctly, wasn't Goju a combination of different arts to begin with? I think that by keeping the art functional, you guys are very well keeping to the values of what Miyagi (sp?) had in mind.

However, if you are trying to maintain the style of Goju, you may find others not as accepting. Depends on what you want out of the art.
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#177963 - 08/13/05 08:19 PM Re: Goju Groundfighting [Re: SANCHIN31]
BuDoc Offline
The doctor will see you now

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1067
Loc: USA and Abroad
I can't speak intelligently on what is or what is not Goju.

I will say this. Okinawan karate in general does address all ranges of combat. It would be ridiculous to assume that the old masters never considered what happens if you should fall accidently, or be taken down. Would they have just turned turtle and quit fighting??

The answer of course is NO WAY!!

I try to stop thinking along the lines of technique and more along the lines of principles .

Certain principles that you have learned while standing or in the clinch will also work on the ground.

Also it is important to remember your paradigm. While Okinawan Karate in general has answers for what to do should you be taken to ground, it wasn't really designed to stay there.

Accidently fall, get swept or taken down... defend/release and get up!!

From a modern point of view, I'll say this. If your style in general does not at least address being on the ground, or your instructor never learned it to show it to you, You definately have a responsibility to supplement. Makes no difference whether you use som BJJ, wrestling,or other art.

Is it still Goju or American Goju or anything else you care to call it?? Sure it is. You just give your students another tool in the bag.

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#177964 - 08/13/05 08:37 PM Re: Goju Groundfighting [Re: SANCHIN31]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Sanchin,

I guess it is always subjective. If you have no concerns how you are identified outside the organization you belong to (even if it is an organization of one) then don't sweat it.

Practice as well as you can and take away what you can....and if this is sufficient to you, at least in the interim, who cares about a name. A rose by any other name smells as sweet.

And I will give kudos to your instructor for not reinventing the wheel. He gave his nod to the standup portion in the style's name, if nothing else. Better than calling it James-ryu, or Smith-kan Karate.

-B

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#177965 - 08/13/05 08:37 PM Re: Goju Groundfighting [Re: SANCHIN31]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
From what you say it sounds very traditional to me. It's been said, by more knowledgable men than me, that in the old days students learnt very few kata. I see nothing wrong in this as long as the kata used are diverse, to give a broader idea of different fighting systems.
The belt system I like, very "olde worlde."
The only thing not to my taste is the groundfighting. Though it depends where you go with it.
If it's with the intention of keeping the fight there, then I'd say, "mmmmmm."
If it's to get back up then that, I would say, is traditional too.
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#177966 - 08/13/05 09:52 PM Re: Goju Groundfighting [Re: BuDoc]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Thanks for all the replies!

We are the only ones in our organization so that's not a concern.
When addressing the groundfighting the idea is to be able to defend yourself there against a good grappler or wrestler if you are taken down,but recovering upright as soon as possible not staying there.
The reason of just a few kata is as thought. There are so many things in kata one can spend many years on just one.Why learn/teach so many? Other than just to keep them alive?
The kata are the taikyoku series, empi, sanchin, seiunchin, sanseryu,bo kata,and tensho taught in that order.
I am partucularly set on learning naihanchi,but it won't be a part of the curriculum for a long while.
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#177967 - 08/13/05 10:34 PM Re: Goju Groundfighting [Re: SANCHIN31]
GojuRyuboy13 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 535
Loc: U.S. of A.
Well Well Well, what have we here?

naw j/k but seriously that's cool that you are learning more groundfighting, it's really fun stuff, I do wish my school would work on it a little more.

OW, it's more like get taken down, defend and attack to get on top, not defend/release and get up. We practice bunkai and kata applications for such things. If you're taken down than yes it becomes a fight to get back up because you have more of an advantage being up than down. Sometimes you can't always get up, wuppty do than wrestle anybody can wrestle. Use your head.

At my school there is only white, green, brown, and black. Ofcourse you get stripes on each of your belts before black. I don't know if that's traditional or not, I think it makes more sense than having every color in a crayon box in one room.

Goju, doesn't really have a lot of ground work basicully because we intend on hitting you before anything else. Ofcourse there is takedowns and throws, locks, and such but those come later, and with little practice. Besides, how many throws, locks, and takedowns do you intend on learning. Or even using for that matter.

My school is very traditional though. Everything we do is based off of tradition pretty much.
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