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#177722 - 08/12/05 01:19 PM I wear snivel-gear!!!
steyr_scout308 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/20/05
Posts: 29
Loc: AR, USA
....And I'm only slightly ashamed to admit it .

This was, I believe, my sensei's sensei's term for the boxing gloves and shin guards we lower ranks use while we spar. We are not allowed to even simulate leg attacks right now. I understand that later on, the "gloves will come off" and the restrictions will loosen somewhat after we've learned some control, but we will maintain contact. We drill takedowns, defenses and escapes independently.

Sanchin31 will probably clarify (or possibly correct) this later.

I'm curious as to how other schools approach sparring, introducing new techniques, accomodating various skill levels, etc.

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#177723 - 08/12/05 02:37 PM Re: I wear snivel-gear!!! [Re: steyr_scout308]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Yep. Shin guards,mouthpiece and 16oz boxing gloves for now.We don't want to make any unnecessary ambulance calls.

Later on when yall have better control we'll let you guys make the decision on what you need or want to wear.

That's when more contact will be allowed(and encouraged).


Quote:

I'm curious as to how other schools approach sparring, introducing new techniques, accomodating various skill levels, etc.




The other schools I've visited wear similar gear,some much more including arm guards and head guards with mask.

Dale just liked to make us feel....special.
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#177724 - 08/12/05 03:01 PM Re: I wear snivel-gear!!! [Re: steyr_scout308]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
I think that it is a good idea to start people out using protective gear. I am in favor of using a good amount of contact while sparring, and it is difficult to do so without using gear.

I have done some of both, and I can tell you that even a LIGHT bare-knuckled shot to the face can hurt pretty bad.

I am sending SANCHIN31 a video that has a little bit of myself and RazorFoot sparring with and without gear.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#177725 - 08/14/05 07:40 PM Re: I wear snivel-gear!!! [Re: MattJ]
steyr_scout308 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/20/05
Posts: 29
Loc: AR, USA
Quote:

I think that it is a good idea to start people out using protective gear. I am in favor of using a good amount of contact while sparring, and it is difficult to do so without using gear.



I have done some of both, and I can tell you that even a LIGHT bare-knuckled shot to the face can hurt pretty bad.

I am sending SANCHIN31 a video that has a little bit of myself and RazorFoot sparring with and without gear.




Excellent. I'll look forward to swiping it from him at the first opportunity. I'm kind of curious as to what it's like.

I'm thinking of trying to use paint or photoshop to remake the "tapout" logo with the words "snivel gear". I see their brand name on a lot of kids' cars around home. There are no schools teaching mma disciplines within 100 miles or so. How much copyright trouble am I in? (Hmmmmmm)

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#177726 - 08/14/05 07:47 PM Re: I wear snivel-gear!!! [Re: steyr_scout308]
Korbillion Offline
Member

Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 57
I am completely against protective gear.

the club I came up through the ranks within never used it, and we never, repeat NEVER had an injury that required any kind of medical care.

I have seen, and am completely convinced of the fact that using gear only serves to condone and encourage poor control and injury.

I never spar with it (unless I am at a tournament where it is required), and I never allow my students to wear it, unless they have an inury that required protection.

K

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#177727 - 08/14/05 08:36 PM Re: I wear snivel-gear!!! [Re: Korbillion]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Korb -

I am assuming you guys do not do much face contact when sparring? Very easy to injure your training partners with out gear when hitting there.

Body shots I can see with out gear....but face?
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#177728 - 08/15/05 08:15 AM Re: I wear snivel-gear!!! [Re: MattJ]
Galen Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/04
Posts: 381
Sparring is NO face contact allowed at all. Of course points to the face are allowed - just no contact.

Light body contact is acceptable.

Of course we train in point fighting, not in what most would call 'realistic' fighitng. Personally I see no need for that. I dont fight outside the club. I do not put myself in the position of fighting. In twenty years of training (not to mention a few years spent as a bouncer) I have never gotten into a fight, so I see no need to train in 'reaslistic' fighting.

For the purposes of that which I teach, point sparring meets the need.

Gah! It just occured to me that my sign in name is different at home and at work! I use Galen at work and Korbilion at home (long story to do with my forgetfulness re: passwords).

Trust me. Its me.

Korb


Edited by Galen (08/15/05 08:59 AM)
_________________________
Nothing imperfect is the measure of anything!

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#177729 - 08/15/05 08:14 PM Re: I wear snivel-gear!!! [Re: Galen]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Quote:

Of course we train in point fighting, not in what most would call 'realistic' fighitng. Personally I see no need for that.




What's the 'need' for pointfighting?

I do'nt put myself in the position for fighting either,but self defense needs do come up and the more real your training the better. You will defend yourself how you train if you do ever need it. Also,what would happen if one of your students were to get hit? I think they would be in shock and get hurt. With more realistic training they won't panic and be in shock when they get hit.

Galen/Korb, Using two usernames is against the forum rules. Which one do you want erased?
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#177730 - 08/16/05 09:50 AM Re: I wear snivel-gear!!! [Re: SANCHIN31]
Galen Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/04
Posts: 381
Quote:

Galen/Korb, Using two usernames is against the forum rules. Which one do you want erased?




Gah!! My bad! Apologies all around. From now forward Ill use the Galen login exclusively. Please delete the other, and again, my apologies.

Quote:

I do'nt put myself in the position for fighting either,but self defense needs do come up and the more real your training the better. You will defend yourself how you train if you do ever need it. Also,what would happen if one of your students were to get hit? I think they would be in shock and get hurt. With more realistic training they won't panic and be in shock when they get hit.




This entire paragraph assumes that these techniques are being taught for a self defense premise. Never once have I claimed that this is my 'goal' in my training or my teaching. What if they ever get hit? I dont care. That is not my goal.

So then, what are my goals? Fair question. In truth, there is only one.

Self control - physcial and intellectual

This is what I teach, and how I train. Martial tools are precisely that. Tools. I dont teach people to fight. In fact, I have a strict rule that if you fight, you better have a DAMNED good explanation, or you are out of my school. Period.

I know this is not the common road. Quite honestly I see training for realistic self defense (outside of police / army / professional requirements) to be giving in to the base and wholly dispicable side of human nature.

I train and I teach to improve myself and my students. To make them better people. This has NOTHING to do with fighting.

What I teach could just as easily be learned through hockey, football, soccer or any other physical endeavour. I just happen to enjoy the intellectual challenge that the martial arts offer these other pursuits.

G


Edited by Galen (08/16/05 09:52 AM)
_________________________
Nothing imperfect is the measure of anything!

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#177731 - 08/16/05 04:20 PM Re: I wear snivel-gear!!! [Re: Galen]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Galen,

I guess there will always be a question of the definition of "Martial." And I know, martial arts are subjective unto the reasons why any particular person would want to get involved in one.

Yet, there is something slightly askew, I think, if there is no real utility to the technique.... whereby neutering something that has its roots in a defensive/fighting style to the extent that real utility comes into question. One can only learn utility when used...in other words sparring. Sparring = contact.

Though I understand your considerations, I think then what you are teaching is a misnomer of the grandest kind....not by your objections to violence which I agree with, and the reasonings behind your criteria for practice, but because filling a bathtub up with air....and calling it water, seems....well...wrong.

In any case, I think this is propbably a philosophical debate, but something I feel that should be listed (just for my own definition). A martial art that does not train contact or allows some semblance of realism in the contact (with the noted understanding that there may be an occasional ouchy due to this contact)...then I have a problem justifying the term Martial attached to this teaching despite its origin.

I understand subjectivitiy, but even within a subjective context I think there are necessities to training that need to be in the definition of the term.

In any case, no harm and no foul, but I thought I would present my objections.

When you punch...the opponent better feel it! Friend or foe....the friend, you can buy him a beer later.

-B

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