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#176577 - 08/09/05 01:10 AM Karate = anti grappling?
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
I hope I haven't given the impression that I am anti -grappling! I've been training extensively on my groundwork over the last several years. I think it's important for self defense to be effective at all ranges. Is your karate school this way?
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

#176578 - 08/09/05 01:22 AM Re: Karate = anti grappling? [Re: SANCHIN31]
sumrandom Offline

Registered: 07/14/05
Posts: 52
Loc: Western Australia
I think the 'anti-' prefix would imply an active stance against something.
So my club for one isn't anti-grappling, we just don't teach it.

#176579 - 08/09/05 01:24 AM Re: Karate = anti grappling? [Re: SANCHIN31]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA

I have to say no. The karate that I study would probably have three big bases, all in standup: Kyokushin style full contact, boxing, and oddly..Aikido (not for the joint locks, but for some of the body movements).

The ground fighting that I learned over the years was an addendum to my standup training when my current karate instructor started practicing with the Machados around 1998. And so his training spilled over to my karate. Also, judo as an extracurricular class taught under a different instructor but connected with our dojo. This judo instructor won the heavyweight Pan Am BJJ BB championship in 2002 held at Dominguez Hills, CA.

And I had to source ground fighting at another BJJ only school to continue my education. I still love karate, but recognize the limitations in my own instrcution and am selfish enough to seek out, in my spare time, what I think I should learn.


#176580 - 08/09/05 01:36 AM Re: Karate = anti grappling? [Re: butterfly]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
I hear ya! My instructor was a wrestler and is very good an groundfighting,he's been teaching me alot about it and he has put it in with our regular karate curriculum. I don't teach it,I prefer to teach the kata and bunkai portion of the class because it's what I know best.
I could learn alot from a good BJJ school,but I'm not willing to pay or travel for it just yet.
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

#176581 - 08/09/05 10:33 AM Re: Karate = anti grappling? [Re: SANCHIN31]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5849
Loc: USA

Pretty much.

And for what its worth, the main impression I get is that you ask good questions and make good comments.
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

#176582 - 08/09/05 10:41 AM Re: Karate = anti grappling? [Re: cxt]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK

And for what its worth, the main impression I get is that you ask good questions and make good comments.

I've got to concur. I will always read a a thread started by yourself or one that you've replied to.
Gavin King
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

#176583 - 08/09/05 10:43 AM Re: Karate = anti grappling? [Re: SANCHIN31]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH

I think its safer to say karate is defense against anything that sticks itself out in your direction.

Okinawa had a strong wrestling/sumo tradition. There is no reason to accept karate development just ignored what was a potential threat. Yet at the same time it did not develop focusing on one attack versus another. In fact tradition seems to show the real purpose of karate was training, correct training. And only after correct training (totally up to the instructors perogative) would the study of application potential be addressed.

Karate was not designed to be an 'instant' street fighting system. And teaching application potential tends to focus on what the percieved threats were after all. History seems to indicate much of the 'extreme' applications were not taught at all, especially when present in the kata, hidden by the simple expedient of not telling the student what it was used for, but often just focusing on simple answers.

On the whole Okinawa was not a violent place, and there was little reaon to focus on the extreme potential of the art. Where it might have been useful was during the invasion of Okinawa by the USA, and even then after suffering so much devistation at the bombardment and bombing, as well as at the hands of the Japaanese, too, there was no need.

War re-inforced all that is really important is survival and life.

You know the lowest level of all our studies is getting the point where you have to use it. Which sometimes is extremely impossible to avoid, and then you realize what a dunce you must be facing, because if they were truly compentent you would not be there anyway. That's just the reality.

Something to think about,
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

#176584 - 08/09/05 10:50 AM Re: Karate = anti grappling? [Re: Gavin]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I've been in Judo since the 80s and training in Aikido, Chin-Na and Jujitsu ever since. When the JJ craze came about it just made me think I was doing the right thing. Though groundwork wasn't as potent or as important as it is now.

I personally like randoria or rolling over sparring, if my muscles sore from a recently weights lifting session. For that day I my limbs feel leaden swift flowing movement suffers but not rolling I seem to have more strength in my techniques?? Maybe its just me.

Yeah I Karate/rock and Judo/roll. I still think you gotta think/break something to call it Jujitsu.

#176585 - 08/09/05 01:35 PM Re: Karate = anti grappling? [Re: Victor Smith]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5849
Loc: USA


You bring up an interesting point.

I have heard it said that one of the reasons you see little OVERT grappling training in karate is that pretty much everyone was raised with training in grappling style pasttimes such as tegumai (term used in this case as meaning a grappling activity) and sumo.
Some type of grappling training was as common amoung Okinawan kids as baseball and soccer are today.

So folks training in karate already had some lengthy exposure to some form of grappling prior to training in karate.

Just a thought.
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

#176586 - 08/09/05 03:43 PM Re: Karate = anti grappling? [Re: SANCHIN31]
Crash Offline
Buckle up!

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 627
Loc: Ontario, Canada
My sensi teaches 3 classes: Wado kai karate, kickboxing and grappling (jujitsu) I've done the grappling and like it, and I do think it's important, but I think I'm going to stick with karate and kickboxing for now and in another year or two I'll work on my ground game.
Even though you only have two arms you can still block with your forearms.

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