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#174880 - 08/03/05 02:34 PM fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?!
Jay Q Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 20
I'm right handed and also kick a lot better with my right leg than left. Consequently, I was taught early on in my MA training to use my right hand as my cross (knockout punch). The theory being to set up my combos with a left jab and knockout the opponent with the right cross.

I know most people are right handed and I know that most fight orthodox style (left as the front jab, right as the cross). I'm thinking of switching stances to south paw because my right kicks are a lot better than my left. I can also set up more combination kicks with my right leg (hook, low thai kick, high thai kick, occassional axe kick, etc.) My problem with orthodox stance was that when I kicked with my right leg (which was to the rear of my stance) my opponent would see it coming because it was a longer distance to travel.

Anyways, sorry for the long post. Just wanted to know of any of your experiences with switching stances after fighting a certain way for a long time. I'm going to experiment tonight at my sparring session. Thanks for the input!

Peace,
JQ

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#174881 - 08/03/05 07:34 PM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: Jay Q]
cinattra Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/03/05
Posts: 3
The rear hand/leg is supposed to be your power hand/leg. I can't see how you can throw a power kick from your front leg, especially when your opponents leg will be so close to yours since he will be in an orthodox stance with left leg forward and you're in the southpaw stance. Hook kicks seem out of place for MMA and more the domain of TKD point scoring.

I'd say develop your left leg for strong low kicks the occassional high kick or learn to fight with your right leg forward sometimes and back the others.

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#174882 - 08/03/05 08:02 PM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: cinattra]
Jay Q Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 20
Good point cinatra. I agree that it's important to be able to switch stances when needed; to flow and adapt. Thanks.
JQ

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#174883 - 08/07/05 12:28 AM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: Jay Q]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
It is important to be able to switch between the two effectively. Imade the switch to southpaw a few years ago, putting my strong side forward. It is quite possible to generate power from the lead. In kicks or punches. Its in the footwork and the use of good body mechanics.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#174884 - 08/09/05 06:05 AM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: Chen Zen]
Ayub Offline
heartbreaker, lifetaker

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: London, UK
I too have made the switch to fighting southpaw and have found that having your more coordinated side forward allows you to fully capitalise on your own speed attribute. As Chen Zen said one is able to generate lots of power by attacks from your lead by body mechanics, just look at Bruce Lee's lead side kick for proof. Also the additional speed allows one to effectively intercept an opponenents attack. The low lead kick for instance, easily allows for breaking distance when used with the correct timing.

Ayub

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#174885 - 08/09/05 06:16 AM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: Jay Q]
RossKo Offline
Member

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 95
Loc: Kent, UK
The way we find our new students fighting stances is to get them to stand up straight with their feet together and arms by their sides "like a soldier" and push them from behind. one of their feet will come forwards to stop them from falling over and this is their "front foot" from now on. Until they have mastered the basics anyway because then they have to start learning to fight in both stances. Usually most people stick their left out first which leaves the stronger right side for the cross etc but I just opened up a new club and 16 out of 24 people went right first - freaky!
_________________________
Train hard and act as if you like it!

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#174886 - 08/09/05 01:04 PM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: RossKo]
Jay Q Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 20
thanks for the very enlightening input from all. After experimenting with switching stances at my last sparring session I have to say that switching to right lead was much more effective. I could flash my jab quicker and it was stronger than my left. Consequently I could bridge the distance better bc that side is faster. Also my right leg was more effective as a "cutting" kick to keep my opponent at a distance, or to throw a low thai kick.

of course the low thai kick from the lead is not as powerful as from the rear, but it keeps my opponent thinking twice about advancing.

Nevertheless, I agree with what has been said here that being able to switch back and forth is invaluable. But after experimenting and using my right lead more I regret not trying it sooner.

Lesson here: don't get stuck in old training habits. Always be open to learning and improving!

Osu!
JQ

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#174887 - 08/09/05 01:05 PM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: RossKo]
funstick5000 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 759
Loc: West Yorkshire, England
Quote:

The way we find our new students fighting stances is to get them to stand up straight with their feet together and arms by their sides "like a soldier" and push them from behind. one of their feet will come forwards to stop them from falling over and this is their "front foot" from now on. Until they have mastered the basics anyway because then they have to start learning to fight in both stances. Usually most people stick their left out first which leaves the stronger right side for the cross etc but I just opened up a new club and 16 out of 24 people went right first - freaky!




it would be better if most dojos did this, would have made my karate a lot more comfortable having my right foot forwards instead of my left. i used to have right forwards in sparring anyway as we got to chose our stance.
_________________________
Go seek the advise of a qualified instructor.

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#174888 - 08/14/05 06:18 PM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: funstick5000]
RossKo Offline
Member

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 95
Loc: Kent, UK
I know what you mean. I have studied how other styles train and whilst I will never slate another style for training differently as they all have their strengths I personnally feel that most people would benifit from being tested this or any other similar way. Though I think (please correct me if I'm wrong) that be the time we progress through the ranks to black belt level or equivalent that we are capable of ambidexterous profeciency. Though my left foot forward will always be my best side!
_________________________
Train hard and act as if you like it!

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#174889 - 08/14/05 07:52 PM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: RossKo]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Whatever lead you choose is irrelevent. Just pick one and stay with it because it takes quite a while to develop skill.


-John

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#174890 - 08/16/05 07:50 AM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: JKogas]
kroh Offline
Member

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 103
Loc: Rhode Island, USA
The school where I train (Jun Fan Gung Fu / Jeet Kune Do)teaches strong side forward. Keep the most devestating weapons ( your strong side ) close to the target. Makes sense. Why pepper some one with shots when you can just drill them with one hit?

Regards,
Walt
_________________________
Fight the Good Fight

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#174891 - 08/21/05 06:04 PM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: JKogas]
Bruce_Lee_Kid_KO Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/21/05
Posts: 1
With Jeet K Doo there is no stance as i am chinese liveing in UK i have mastered this martial arts and am a grade 5 black belt

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#174892 - 08/22/05 10:38 AM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: Bruce_Lee_Kid_KO]
Ayub Offline
heartbreaker, lifetaker

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: London, UK
Quote:

With Jeet K Doo there is no stance as i am chinese liveing in UK i have mastered this martial arts and am a grade 5 black belt




You are a grade five joker! There is a stance by the way. Who gave you this grade might I ask, clown college?
_________________________
Cut me Mick!

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#174893 - 08/23/05 12:37 PM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: Bruce_Lee_Kid_KO]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I thought JKD didn't really have a belt rank/system its either you are a certified instructor or you're not, now they do have stages or level of instructors. And maybe that's what you meant a 5th degree black belt equilivelant.

Usually it taught strong side forward like most Chinese systems. Joe Lewis disagrees with this because of his kicking boxing experience but obviously couldn't or didn't convince Bruce Lee of this.
_________________________
DBAckerson

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#174894 - 08/27/05 12:34 PM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: kroh]
DrAgOnPuNcH Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 18
Loc: Staten Island aka Shaolin, NYC
Quote:

The school where I train (Jun Fan Gung Fu / Jeet Kune Do)teaches strong side forward. Keep the most devestating weapons ( your strong side ) close to the target. Makes sense. Why pepper some one with shots when you can just drill them with one hit?

Regards,
Walt




that's wut i read in the tao of jeet kund do...it makes sensee but doesnt feel as comfortable 4 me

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#174895 - 08/30/05 03:19 PM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: DrAgOnPuNcH]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
with all due respect to lee and jkd, i think that commiting yourself to one stance will cause a dependancy on certain positions of opponents, ie if you fight southpaw you may be disoriented by someone coming at you orthodox. in my humble opinion, as a snowboarder and MAist, it's best to learn to flow both ways as equally as possible. if your right leg is your power leg, work on building up that left.

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#174896 - 08/31/05 02:40 PM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: ShikataGaNai]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Most BJJ schools teach the strong side forward method as well to enable getting to the clinch faster. However, as its been said, you must be able to work both sides effectively. Your dominant hand might be busy doing other things at the time, like carrying groceries, or recovering from injury. Theres a million things that could go wrong so you must have adequate backup.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#174897 - 09/02/05 09:35 PM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: Jay Q]
64445 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/02/05
Posts: 10
bruce used to preach, put your strong side forward. although as a wing chin practitioner, he was taught to use both sides equally. your lead kick should be used the same as a jab in boxing because its the longest weapon aimed at the closest target, to get to me you have to move to me using your legs. cross the gap with the low side kick then make contact and follow up with your hands and contact reflexes. then flow like water.

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#174898 - 09/17/05 09:46 AM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: 64445]
kenposan Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/23/01
Posts: 633
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
I am not a JKD but a karateka. I am a southpaw and fight left side forward. This started primarily because most MA are right handed and I fell into their stance when sparing. But I have discovered that it works well for me. I like having my "power" up front. My left jab is more coordinated and stronger than my right and my left front kick is more powerful as well.

What I have found is my right side is faster and more flexible, so the power is kind of balanced, if that makes sense. I can throw a right leg rear roundhouse faster than I can a left leg rear roundhouse, so a strong side forward stance works well for me.

Also, I have more control with my strong side forward. By control, I mean parrying, blocking, trapping.
_________________________
The angry man will defeat himself in battle, as well as in life. -Samurai maxim

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#174899 - 09/20/05 12:16 PM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: kenposan]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I go back and forward whatever makes my opponent the most unconfortable, naturally I am (right hand) strong side forward, because of the obvious reason, but I've notice once I step in or if he moves in I go to orthodox, then back to right lead if I get some space.

Left hand fighters don't present the problem they do to a boxer or ordothodox, because we are use to working with both.
_________________________
DBAckerson

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#174900 - 09/20/05 09:49 PM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: Neko456]
etaks86 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/14/05
Posts: 161
In my opinion like many others of course it's important to be effective with both stances. but i do tend to stand stong forward more i guess force of habit it's just more natural that way. but i do agree it's very important to be effective in both stances. either way i believe in fast, simple and direct moves work the best. or if you want to mix it up alittle you can use directly indirect moves to throw the other person off. equal speed and power + simplicity in technic + correct timing and correct body mechanics = effective attack. anyway i see you guys/girls around. later people

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#174901 - 11/19/05 09:33 AM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: Jay Q]
TheMongoose Offline
Stranger

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 4
Loc: Southern California
In JKD we initially teach the "Strong Side Lead". This allows, expecically from long range, your strong and accurate arm to be used frequently with a high degree of speed & power with minimal waste and maximum efficiency.

This also serves to provide power to the rear cross and rear leg by taking advantage of the body torque and momentum when they are used.

However, in later stages, the JKD Man should have a "No Weak Side" ability to use either lead at his discretion with minimal drop off, speed or power.


Kawabunga!
_________________________
William E. Holland II "The Mongoose" www.ijkda.com www.tactixtrainingcenter.com

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#174902 - 11/29/05 08:28 AM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: TheMongoose]
simplicity Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 12
Loc: Michigan
How I teach my students, is to hit from where you are at any giving time....this will keep things simple and direct to the point of impact....

Peace-Out!
_________________________
Peace-Out! John McNabney www.purpledragonstudio.com

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#174903 - 11/29/05 11:29 AM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: etaks86]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I agree totally but I feel it must be done effectively not just because I can do it. If a guy has a problem fighting a left side fighter I'll do it the whole fight until he figures it out, if he doesn't thats all he will see, most likely.

Like you all I try to effective on both sides but I don't fool myself I know were the powers and speeds at. Both sides have power but each has its strengthens and weakness, my right side has less weakness and more diversity.
_________________________
DBAckerson

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#174904 - 01/18/06 04:46 PM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: etaks86]
RavenG4 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 34
Loc: New Jersey, USA
It is good to be able to fight "south paw." Bruce Lee while fighting leaned strong side first was able to fight equally from both sides. It is best to be an ambidexterous fighter.
_________________________
"Evil is Powerless if the good are unafraid."- Ronald Reagan

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#174905 - 07/07/07 12:29 AM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: Jay Q]
UnknownFighter Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/06/07
Posts: 5
Loc: unknown
lee taught his students not to only favor one side. Although lee favored the south paw stance, he taught you should always train both sides of your body. Don't cheat your body by staying in one stance. lee would use his feet in movement and switch stances many time as he engages his target.
_________________________
- jeet kune do is a way of living you life

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#174906 - 07/09/07 08:12 AM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: UnknownFighter]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
I think Lee definitely favoured the power side forward in order to be able to land the big shots more easily. I think it something like 80 or 90% of the strikes should be done with the lead side, so make them great ones. While he trained both sides equally, the majority of his instruction was southpaw. I believe he switched stances more in his movies than he would have in a real fight which he would probably do to confuse his opponent with many variations. Nowadays I think you should train both but you'll always favour one over the other
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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#174907 - 07/14/07 01:17 PM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: jkdwarrior]
badeofblade Offline
Member

Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 46
I train both, and I've found I'm better at defending when using left lead, and better at attacking when using right lead... Right lead also gives me an oppertunity to rest my left arm after it's tuckered from defending
_________________________
Scientific Street Fighter|Weapon of Choice = Combat Boots|Tool of Choice = Elbows

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#174908 - 07/17/07 07:52 PM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: JKogas]
Cadfael Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/10/07
Posts: 7
This subject is of great interest to me. I have pondered this issue and have came to a conclusion. My thesis is Bruce Lee's teaching about using the strong side as your main lead is simply based upon insecurity on his part. He must have undoubtably been insecure regarding the Western boxing lead.

The wisdom of the Western boxing lead stands supreme in my mind because such a jab can be trained to its maximum level regarding speed and power. This punch if delivered properly after training it can be very potent as a simple offensive attack, or as a set up punch. Further, this punch is more excellent if it is modified into a vertical punch with torque at the end coupled with the snap. The torque at the end creates a horizontal fist which agrees with the horizontal plane of the shoulders. This creates a full coordination of rhythm that a simple vertical punch lacks--Bruce Lee was wrong to that extent. I conclude that Lee's approach to the vertical punch was wrong because of the lack of torque at the end. This is evident in the photos in Bruce Lee's Fighting Method Vol.3. Lastly, the rear straight punch is going to be the power punch. This power punch is superior because it is not sacraficing power for speed--Remember Lee is primarilly remembered for his speed and not his power. His disire for utmost speed was probably an insecurity as well. However, a fast punch using maximum power would have more knock out potential. On the otherhand, you could just throw exceptionally fast weaker punches.

In the final analysis, train your so-called weak arm as much as you can to create a devestating jab that can equal your strong arm and use the rear straight for maximum power.

Cadfael

P.S. I understand that some people who love Bruce Lee may take offence to this post. However, I believe if we are to be fully developed individuals, we must slay our gods. In my thoughts, Lee has become classical.


Edited by Cadfael (07/17/07 08:15 PM)

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#174909 - 05/25/08 08:31 PM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: JKogas]
skinters Offline
Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 239
Loc: swansea,wales
my advice is to train both sides equally and be comfortable striking with both. it takes time to develop your opposite side and to many give in with the excuse it dont feel right i can fight either stance if im in orthodox and get pushed into a southpaw stance ill stay there . sometimes you have no choice and you will get pushed to your awkward side and nobodys going to wait until you change your stance coz you not comfortable .


Edited by skinters (05/25/08 08:34 PM)
_________________________
if only we could strike with the eyes - from the thought to the fist how much time is lost ?

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#174910 - 05/28/08 10:14 AM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: skinters]
BruceLee94 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/26/08
Posts: 24
Loc: Lincoln, UK
Well, I#, left handed, and because most things in this world are designed for right handers, left-handers find it easier to adapt to right handed techniques. So everything that i learn, i will do in one stance at training, and then practice it in another stance when i get home. Harder than it sounds, and it sounds hard, but eventually, you'll get used to it, and it will become much easier to adapt to anything with your other hand, not just MA.
_________________________
Be like Water

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#174911 - 06/08/08 02:25 PM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: BruceLee94]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Its important to be equally capable from either side. However, not only will having your strong side forward give you an offensive advantage, but also better defensive ability, IMO.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#174912 - 06/20/08 02:42 AM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: Chen Zen]
IExcalibui2 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
I'm a righty and I stand south paw...my right hand is faster and stronger so I like the think that it can block and intercept attacks better than if my left was in front. Since its stronger I can attack from a shorter distance too and the extra distance I give my left hand gives it some more power. Kicks for me can come from either side, though my right kicks are obviously better. I want my left side to be as strong as possible so that theres less of a difference btwn my right and left. Sometimes I switch to orthodox just to make sure I still got it, or if I really want to give my opponent some extra power with my right. However, I naturally feel more comfortable with my power hand in the front. I might be because of the kungfu or JKD or something, but its natural for me. Same with snowboardings, I ride goofy (right leg in front).
_________________________
"you're going to work till you wish you were dead and then keep going.." -Sgt Slaughter

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#174913 - 06/24/08 10:31 AM Re: fighting stance: orthodox or south paw?! [Re: IExcalibui2]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
It depends on how the opponent stands. Southpaw I am quicker and counter offensive. Orthodox I plan to be more powerful and offensive each has it advantage and weakness knowing yourself you can work toward your strengths.

Unfournately there are some techniques that I don't do well on my left side, on my right side I'm more versitle. So my trad training of trying to do everything on both side failed but at least I know whats possible and all the KISS stuff I can do well on both sides. So it just depends on what or whos in front of me. I'm comfortable and can change in a second to go either way.

I also find that a lefty is not that hard to fight as it is in boxing in that we train to expect either side and we don't stay in punching range exclusively. Which is in mho were they may have an unexpected advantage.
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DBAckerson

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