Christie,
When I was doing TKD I was taught the same crude applications.Opponent would step in a long front stance and throw a reverse punch with the other hand chambered,defender would step forward and bloch the punch then counter.Terrible bunkai! The applications are there,but they have to be taught right.I would assume the instructor was holding back or truly didn't know them.
I covered some applications for blocks in the TKD forum.

I would go with that the instructor was holding them back. There is one instructor I have in Toronto who is absolutely amazing. His applications make sense, they aren't bogus.. but unfortunately I don't get taught by him as often as I would like. My usual instructor is Korean with an English vocabulary that definitely isn't complete. I'm sure he knows the applications but doesn't know the english to explain them. Amazing martial artist, but poor english.

Karate is a form of civilian self defence. Therefore, kata is defensive.
Here is a quote that I like, "Attack is the secret of defence: defence is the planning of an attack." Sun Tzu
Never let anyone get their hands on you first. Learn to read the signals and fire first.
Now if I could only take a bit of my own advice.

Actually I like that quote so much I'm going to have it as my signature

Quote:

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"Attack is the secret of defence: defence is the planning of an attack." Sun Tzu

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Fantastic quote!

Sounds like words to live by. No wonder General Sun Tzu writtings are so well thought of, they make sense even today.

I hear many quotes nowadays that are attributed to old MA masters when really they are the words of General Sun Tzu.

3 Points:

1) Kata was never meant to be a choreographed fight against multiple opponents. I've said this 264 times (a million seemed to be exagerating) . The idea is to pull individual pieces away from the kata & then train, train, train. If you do that, people may think you're doing Krav Maga.

2) A good Offence is the best Defense. (nuff said)

3) We need to get over the notion that a pre-emptive strike is an attack. Following our consciences to be the "honorable" ones, we can end up on the knuckle side of a right hook. I like to think in terms of 3 basic defensive maneuvers:
a) Go-no-sen: Block & attack
b) Sen-no-sen: Block w/ attack
c) Sen sen-no-sen: stolen timing (pre-emptive strike)

Most of us would do well to utilize Go-no-sen in an actual SD scenario. Some may manage the next higher level of SD, Sen-no-sen, to change the course of the aggression. A very few who aren't hobbled by nerves, inexperience or surprize could possible deal w/ an attacker via Sen sen-no-sen.

This highest level has a nearly "psychic" quality that we all strive to acquire through years of training. This is what Funakoshi was referring to.

Now if you approached that guy in line who was "looking @ you funny" & kicked him in the marbles, don't look to me to back-up your Sen sen-no-sen arguement. Not the same thing.

owari

Quote:

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1) Kata was never meant to be a choreographed fight against multiple opponents. I've said this 264 times (a million seemed to be exagerating) . The idea is to pull individual pieces away from the kata & then train, train, train. If you do that, people may think you're doing Krav Maga.

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I've agreed with you 1 million times! Krav Maga *snicker,snicker*

I'm a Sen sen-no-sen kinda guy.

Great post!

Kata is a teaching or learning tool. Think about it.

Kickcatcher,thanks for not for forgetting about us gung fu people. You are right about the differences how gung gu people look at forms and how karate people look at forms.

Kevin