You write intelligently enough but have a closed mind. 4 yrs of karate (could mean anything), some TKD & HG doesn't make you an expert.

Have you seen/trained in KM? This is a so-called "modern" SD art, right? So many of their techniques can be seen in kata it's more than coincedence. I'm not saying that KM is a direct descendant of karate, just that the body operates the same around the world & it's dynamics & weaknesses can be utilized & exploited in the same ways around the world & throughout history. Now if you put a dozen of those techniques together in a string of techniques, what do you have...kata.

The gross misconception is that kata represent one long fight/defense scenario against multiple opponents. That isn't & never was true. If it was, why would you do a technique to the left & repeat it to the right? Are the bad guys so bumb that they would attack you in the same manner immediately after you successfully defended yourself against his buddy???

Now to address your lethality comment. Some kata techniques have the potential of being lethal. We don't have to take an old Okinawan's word for it. Just ask any ER doctor. Providing you have the correct technique & perform it correctly, you should have your answer. Are some of these techniques hidden? Yes - & the reason is obvious. Does it take training to master? Yes.

So remember that sparring isn't fighting or SD & should never be used as a barometer for effectiveness.

BTW: You mentioned Helio Gracie. Having trained briefly w/ him, Rorion & Royce, I can attest that BJJ has kata. Just as Judo uses 2 people for kata, so does BJJ.

It was also written that "lots of MA don't have kata" (or something similar). I'll go out on a limb & bet that more have kata than not. They might not look like karate kata but repetitious, controlled skills practice appear in most defensive/offensive arts from SWAT hostage rescue scenarios to wrestling.


Very well said. And i would like to add also, Yes in my previous post i was refering to sparring in relation to Karate, not pankration or greco roman or any other art.
I am with you Sanchin all the way in regards to Kata training. Yes lethal techniques are there.. am i going to have to use them .. i hope not. I try to focus my kata application on more controlling techniques. When i work scenarios or bunkai i try to think about what will work technically and also what i can get away with LEGALLY. Kickcatcher im sorry karate didnt work out for you. But i agree with previous posters that 4rys is not enough time to even scratch the surface of what kata has to offer.
There is always someone who knows more, and noone who knows it all....