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#173564 - 07/30/05 11:08 PM Question for Aikidoist
Intrepidinv1 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/05
Posts: 308
Loc: NC, USA
I have a question for my Aikido practicing friends of the FightingArts Forum:

When I studied Aikido for a short period of time in a particular school there was a lot of techniques that involved the attacker grabbing the wrist of the defender. The defender was not taught to reverse the grip or take hold of the attacker in any way (on most techniques, not all.) Is this a common practice in all Aikido schools or is this different in the different styles of Aikido?

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#173565 - 07/31/05 12:07 AM Re: Question for Aikidoist [Re: Intrepidinv1]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Can I just say that it is no different in the jujitsu that I do. All we're doing is looking at one small aspect of the totality of a technique. When we do a set defense from a wrist grab, we are only working one small aspect of the technique.

This is because of the multitude of possible variations and potential responses that can arise from that one attack - not to mention the multitude of potential responses you can go into in the middle of and on exiting the technique.

Once you understand the basic technique from a wrist grab, the same technical response to a strike is exactly the same, except the entry is slightly different, depending on the attack.

You before you can run, you must first learn to take baby steps.


Edited by eyrie (07/31/05 12:16 AM)

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#173566 - 07/31/05 02:29 AM Re: Question for Aikidoist [Re: Intrepidinv1]
csinca Offline
former moderator

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 672
Loc: Southern California
Quote:

I have a question for my Aikido practicing friends of the FightingArts Forum:

When I studied Aikido for a short period of time in a particular school there was a lot of techniques that involved the attacker grabbing the wrist of the defender. The defender was not taught to reverse the grip or take hold of the attacker in any way (on most techniques, not all.) Is this a common practice in all Aikido schools or is this different in the different styles of Aikido?




In general I think you would be safe to assume that there will be a lot of wrist grabbing by teh attacker (uke) and that the defender (nage) will not be looking to grab back.

I'm not sure what your next question is but here are a couple possible answers....

As eyrie said, this is the simplest way to teach and learn the basics.

Also, aikido still has a lot of its roots tied to the sword culture. In my understanding, some of the wrist grabs would be you trying to keep me from drawing my sword. In that case I don't really care to reverse the grip as to get my weapon out and cut you.

Grabbing as a means of control is generally frowned upon as it theoretically gives an energy or strength to reverse and a direct skeletal link to at least your shoulders.

In aikido, fear not the grab because if you are grabbing me with your right hand, I know you aren't hitting me with your right hand

Chris

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#173567 - 07/31/05 06:44 AM Re: Question for Aikidoist [Re: csinca]
Intrepidinv1 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/05
Posts: 308
Loc: NC, USA
Thanks for the information.

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#173568 - 07/31/05 06:53 PM Re: Question for Aikidoist [Re: Intrepidinv1]
AttorneyJohn Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 14
Loc: Houston Texas
Quote:

I have a question for my Aikido practicing friends of the FightingArts Forum:

When I studied Aikido for a short period of time in a particular school there was a lot of techniques that involved the attacker grabbing the wrist of the defender. The defender was not taught to reverse the grip or take hold of the attacker in any way (on most techniques, not all.) Is this a common practice in all Aikido schools or is this different in the different styles of Aikido?





In our style of aikido (Tomiki-ryu), we have to start somewhere, so we start out with the wrist grabs. It is a less dynamic attack than, say, the standard barfight windmill haymaker punch. It's easier for the person being attacked to see and feel the attack's direction, and to stop the movement if you are the instructor to correct things and comment. Moving up into strikes and such comes later, as do the other variations like the reversals, etc. In a nutshell, in the beginning, I'd say most aikido schools do this type of basic exercise at first, then add to it as the student's understanding increases. Sort of the same progression from front kick, to round kick, then to side kick emerges from almost any kicking style before they move into turning and spinning kicks, if you follow the analogy.

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#173569 - 08/03/05 12:19 PM Re: Question for Aikidoist [Re: Intrepidinv1]
aikikiai Offline
Member

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 61
Quote:

The defender was not taught to reverse the grip or take hold of the attacker in any way (on most techniques, not all.) Is this a common practice in all Aikido schools or is this different in the different styles of Aikido?




Minoru Mochizuki sensei, a pre-war uchi deshi to Morihei Ueshiba ALWAYS reversed the grab and caught uke in a firm grip with a twist and a lock, and guided him through a circular path to a throw or final pin.

He did not trust attempting any serious response based only on the attacker's grip. He always led their grip into his grip and final technique.

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#173570 - 08/03/05 03:04 PM Re: Question for Aikidoist [Re: Intrepidinv1]
Canyon Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 42
A couple of things to think about:

1) If someone isn't coming in with a totally solid and committed grab you don't really need to do a solid technique or might want to think about a different technique. For example if they loosely grab your wrist you would probably want to do the basic ikkyo-yonkyo entries because they require a strong grab but you a quick nikkyo, shihonage, or irimigae would work, or you could just hit them in the face. I guess what I'm saying is that you'll need to learn adjust your technique on how the uke attacks even if it's the same techqniue. If they grab weak and don't come in very far do a small nikyo. If they are really coming in hard and fast do a kaitennage.

2) On techniques where you don't grab back you often put some pressure back towards their body so they really can't let go (kaitennage and shinonage are good examples of this I can think of).

All in all katatedori (wrist grabs) are a good place to start because they don't reauire exact timing like a punch or kick and you can feel where your opponents energy is.

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