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#173379 - 07/30/05 07:28 PM What is your art lacking?
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
If you could change or add things to your core art what would they be? Why?
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Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#173380 - 07/30/05 08:48 PM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: SANCHIN31]
Crash Offline
Buckle up!

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 627
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Good question. I'd say groung fighting because wado kai (like most karate) lacks ground fighting. Which is why in the future I will study an art like BJJ, judo or Greco roman wrestling.
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Even though you only have two arms you can still block with your forearms.

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#173381 - 07/30/05 08:51 PM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: SANCHIN31]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Sanchin,

Admittedly lacking in grappling (in the former way I used to practice) and in weapons.

-B

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#173382 - 07/30/05 08:59 PM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: SANCHIN31]
awais786 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 79
Loc: ONT. CANADA
Hmm, i would add some preesure point techiques in my take know do

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#173383 - 07/30/05 09:05 PM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: SANCHIN31]
GojuRyuboy13 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 535
Loc: U.S. of A.
I'd say grappling and throws, also the countering for those are most important.

Maybe some more practical techniques would be nice, but definitely work on grappling and counters more.

Why, well because we don't train a lot on those apsects of MA much at all, and it would be nice to add some more techniques to your aresonal, for when we get a little to close for comfort.

How about you SANCHIN?
_________________________
"A lawyer with his briefcase can steal more than a hundred men with guns." Aw, The GodFather

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#173384 - 07/30/05 09:15 PM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: SANCHIN31]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
I've got to say this and I believe it to be true, nothing.
My particular style is not all encompassing, but I believe the true art of karate is.
You have to look at what your art was originally designed to do. Specifically, if you look at boxing, it has all the systems in place to be effective where it was designed to be so. In the ring. In that essence it lacks nothing. As karate was designed to be a civilian self defence system, it has answers to almost every conceivable type of attack you are likely to face in a civilian encounter.
Some people consider that it lacks ground fighting skills.
It does not. They are just rarely practised. Also the principles of the ground fighting techniques are different from those of dedicated groundfighters because the grapplers aim is to keep the fight close or on the ground whereas karate ground fighting is all about escaping the ground. This difference in application is what leads some to believe that karate has no ground work.
So, all in all, I wouldn't change a thing.
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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#173385 - 07/30/05 09:29 PM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: SANCHIN31]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Every art is perfect in its own right. The question is not what can be added or removed. But rather the question should be, what else can I discover that's "hidden" in MY art.



Edited by SANCHIN31 (07/31/05 12:24 AM)

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#173386 - 07/30/05 09:46 PM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: eyrie]
Foolsgold Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 1635
Loc: South Lyon, MI, USA
eyrie- Just ignore him, he's trolling.

Like most TKD people, I really would like to work more handwork into my game. That's okay for now though, because I want to perfect my kicking game and flexibility while I'm young.
_________________________
Soy stupido, pero soy guapo!

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#173387 - 07/30/05 09:47 PM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: eyrie]
GojuRyuboy13 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 535
Loc: U.S. of A.
Although I agree with what you guys were saying about the art not lacking anything because of how it approaches situations and what not.

I think the question was more like what would like practice more within your art that you rarely ever do. or something like that.

Like where I study there are takedowns, arm locks, leg locks, pressure points and so on. We rarely practice those, almost never. Besides when we spar if your partner grabs you we try to escape it. If your taken down than it becomes a fight to get on top/on your feet, immediately.

I wish we would work on some of those parts of Goju that aren't practiced as much anymore. But than again I didn't go there to learn how to grab and throw.
_________________________
"A lawyer with his briefcase can steal more than a hundred men with guns." Aw, The GodFather

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#173388 - 07/30/05 09:49 PM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: Foolsgold]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Ignore who?

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#173389 - 07/30/05 09:57 PM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: GojuRyuboy13]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
GojuRyuboy13,
Basically,yes.What I was really asking is what is your training lacking.Perhaps when you get further along you will have the opportunity to practice wha you already know is in your art.

Me? The way we train isn't lacking anything from the feedback I got before.I had a thread that was lost How am I doing? and can't find it through google.
I am always finding new ways to improve how we train though,and always will.
Kata is our foundation and I love discovering new things in it.
-Brian
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#173390 - 07/30/05 10:38 PM Re: What is your art lacking? *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: SANCHIN31]
deadlyartsmaster Offline
Member

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 74
Post deleted by SANCHIN31


Edited by MattJ (07/30/05 11:36 PM)

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#173391 - 07/30/05 11:36 PM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: deadlyartsmaster]
clammy joe Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/05
Posts: 112
I wish Krav Maga had some joint locking techniques and other
things useful for controlling people without really hurting them.
_________________________
"Trying is the first step towards failure."-Homer J. Simpson

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#173392 - 07/31/05 03:25 AM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: clammy joe]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
I do not like TKD the way it is now. Here's what I'd change:

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35652&page=1
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Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#173393 - 07/31/05 09:56 PM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: Leo_E_49]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
I think that AKK overdoes the technical knowledge a little. It has lost some of the flair for being about self improvement, and all the tech jargon has become a tool for egomaniacs who want to open mcdojos and look like they have "better" knowledge than the sensei down the street who teaches a simple form of MA.

A funny story attached to this. I was at a tournament, when one of the guys from Sacramento was having a conversation with one of my instructors, and a few of the other AKK guys. He was trying to use all the tech terms, but kept using some of them wrong. When he finally walked away and out of hearing distance, all of us couldn't help but busrt out laughing.


Edited by Bushi_no_ki (07/31/05 09:58 PM)

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#173394 - 08/03/05 07:01 PM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: SANCHIN31]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
There may be Isshinryu dojos where there's more ground fighting, but I didn't get a lot. My sensei was a cop, and he said rolling around with a gun, baton, handcuffs, etc bruising his kidneys didn't appeal to him. Getting him on the ground would've been REAL tough at any rate.
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#173395 - 08/04/05 11:17 AM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: SANCHIN31]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
What my art is missing is condoning from my ex-sensei, in this local region I'm his highest ranked student. he would have liked it if I could take his students in this area to higher heights. A lot have sought me out saying this, but when they find how different I teach some fade away.

What I find is because I don't teach a pure art (I think I do) or I've changed the lesson plan (but not the system) they want it to be like Sensei's art, but a lot has changed since 1980s and so has my art. They want a lot of hard point fighting and continuous sparring, I de-emphasis point fighting we train in it ( as Level 1) but its not that important, once we start full contact sparring and range fighting this is were I stress importants, now.

I've teach a hybird art based on my overall training its starts out similar but I don't spend two weeks on just 1 stance and nothing else. I include ukemi, a multi-tude of self defense from Tangsoodo, Shorin, locks, throws, grappling from Aiki-jujits, Jujitsu, Chin-na, Judo, Wrestling, boxing foot work, combination elbows, knees & hands like thia-boxing or gung-fu. But its platform is still Goju-ryu of course sanchin stance is not as solid as it once was, eventually it is. But they learn so much more in the time it takes to development one stance.

The old student think I've fell away from what Sensei taught and some sly away from me because of this difference. So if I could add anything it would be his condolence or presence. Its sorta how Larry Holmes felt coming behind Ali.

Thanks I needd a forum to cry on.
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DBAckerson

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#173396 - 08/06/05 02:40 PM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: Ironfoot]
steyr_scout308 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/20/05
Posts: 29
Loc: AR, USA
Quote:

There may be Isshinryu dojos where there's more ground fighting, but I didn't get a lot. My sensei was a cop, and he said rolling around with a gun, baton, handcuffs, etc bruising his kidneys didn't appeal to him. Getting him on the ground would've been REAL tough at any rate.




My teacher is the po-leese too, but I think he digs teaching the ground techniques a lot. He's roughly half my size and he can till his back yard with my head like he's using a horse-drawn plow. As for what we're lacking, I think it's a modern fashion sense. I think we should wear shorts (sorry. rashguards) with the a pair of eyes and the words "bad boy" on the butt. Then we'd be cool.

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#173397 - 08/06/05 05:49 PM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: steyr_scout308]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Yeah,don't underestimate the little guy who's been rollin around over 20yrs.

I think our art lacks tattoos!! You first.
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#173398 - 08/10/05 01:51 AM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: SANCHIN31]
Boomer Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 304
Loc: York, Pa
It's lacking sanchin kata. Seriously, I had to get Victor Smith to teach it to me.

That's how I roll along though. I add to my shotokan that which I think it needs for me to make it work better and be a better all around martial artist.
_________________________
Calling yourself "Master" implies that you have slaves.

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#173399 - 08/10/05 03:18 PM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: SANCHIN31]
steyr_scout308 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/20/05
Posts: 29
Loc: AR, USA
Quote:

I think our art lacks tattoos!! You first.




OK, done! Your turn!I'll be a sport and let you finish chemo first. So as not to totally derail the thread, I don't have a thorough enough understanding to tell anyone Goju lacks anything useful at all, but I do know a couple of other arts interest me, namely BJJ and Kali/Escrima. After a few years, I might entertain thoughts of trying to pick up somponents of those arts, but I just put the thought on the back burner for now.

Boomer, what did Sanchin kata give you that you felt was lacking?


Edited by steyr_scout308 (08/10/05 03:20 PM)

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#173400 - 08/10/05 06:43 PM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: steyr_scout308]
Boomer Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 304
Loc: York, Pa
Quote:

Boomer, what did Sanchin kata give you that you felt was lacking?




I feel that shotokan was meant to be this great conglomeration of Okinawan arts, as Funakoshi meant for it to be. How can it be so without a kata that's a common theme throughout almost all Okinawan martial arts?
Also, the backbone of shotokan was through Funakoshi's mentor, Azato Yasutsune, who's philosophy was "treat the arms and legs like swords". Itosu, who was considered to be equally important to the develpoment of shotokan, had a different philosophy of "condition the body". But the latter philosophy isn't as prominent in the shotokan of today. I feel sanchin can add a bit of that aspect.
_________________________
Calling yourself "Master" implies that you have slaves.

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#173401 - 08/19/05 08:36 AM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: Boomer]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
My art lacks flash and fancy high kicks...and so lacks mass appeal.

Personally, that suits me...but for the life of me I can't understand why 99.99% of the people I meet have no interest in the martial arts. Makes for small classes.

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#173402 - 08/20/05 08:54 AM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: harlan]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
"What is your art lacking?"

Years.

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#173403 - 08/21/05 08:16 PM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: SANCHIN31]
Mark Hill Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1068
Loc: Australia
Am I showing my age?

I view martial arts as one. JKD was in part, a realisation someone has after they have a bad dream - they remember things they forgot. It's all about learning "Fist Law" to me, wether you learn BJJ, Hapkido, TKD or Boxing.

To me, karate is an empty shell. It can have everything in it. Otherwise, you go outside to look for answers and solutions. If you want to improve your punch, sure, use the makiwara and basics, but learn boxing, spar and experiment. I awant my locks and bunkai to be better so I learn Hapkido, which has become soemthing else on it's own. I train, and try to learn the concepts and their variations, and be able to apply them in the correct situation.

My karate has hard fighting, we realised we needed grappling so took it up a little before I started, we compete in WKF tournaments and do JKA kata. Our bunkai was lacking so we sought out Vince Morris and Pat Mc Carthy. We watch some of the UFC training videos for some hard endurance sessions and to steal yet more techniques. We don't say abandon what is sueless, we leave that up to the individual, and usually say if it is useless you don't know how to use it.

Your "karate" is what kata etc is practiced in your dojo, your traditions and the bonds you have with your training partners. Style is about kata and instructors. Your "art" is what you can do. I liken it to a "strength map" a body builder might compile. If his chest is weak, he might specialise in certain bench presses for a few months. You try to amke it even and and as large as possible.

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#173404 - 08/21/05 08:20 PM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: Kintama]
Mark Hill Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1068
Loc: Australia
Good answer Kintama!

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#173405 - 08/21/05 08:29 PM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: SANCHIN31]
makiwaraman Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/05
Posts: 50
Loc: Guildford, Surrey,UK
The art that I currently study is lacking sanchin kata as already stated, and Hojo Undo.Both of which I add to my home training with the help of shoshikan who has agreed to teach me sanchin kata . IMHO You are not studying true karate without the hojo undo which is a vital part of conditioning the body to make it an effective weapon. Without this training its just sports karate.
Regards Maki
_________________________
We are necessarily imperfect and therefore always in a state of growth.

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#173406 - 08/22/05 04:53 PM Re: What is your art lacking? [Re: SANCHIN31]
sholindude08 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/21/05
Posts: 8
i believe that ground fighting and personally in our dojo we dont do enough sparring which i really love but hey life aint fair.and the reason we need more of that is if some one suprise attacks you and gets you on the ground itts key to know how to fight your way out of it and sparring is practice fighting so therefore self explanatory helps you be all practiced up for a real fight
happy punching,
sholin dude
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martial art clubs are family, martial arts styles are like races, martial arts is like life

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