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#173281 - 08/16/05 05:59 PM Re: High Kicks [Re: Fangshendo]
Talimas Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/05
Posts: 131
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
I frequently practice high kicks, to and above the head. Generally in point sparring I will score most of my points with high kicks, but in a real fight I have never brought my left above their thighs let alone to someone's head. Can a high kick be useful in a fight, of course, you can knock someone out in one kick semi easily. Is it worth the risk of them countering and having a great hold to drive your head into the concrete, um.... no. Quick pops to the knees, shins, and thighs "can" potentially keep someone from charging you in a real fight, with that being said even low kicks are risky.

My theory has always been if I can kick a well trained opponent in the head and hit it, then and only then would I consider using a waist or below kick in a fight. If you can't even the low kick may just be too slow, but that is my personal opinion.
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Some things move, most things breath, anything can be destroyed.

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#173282 - 08/20/05 09:35 PM Re: High Kicks [Re: Talimas]
Carbone Offline
Member

Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 161
Loc: New York
I already wrote a post on this concerning High Kicks VS Low Kicks and got like 4 pages of responses.

From what I get, use high kicks when necessary. When there's an opening use it, when not, don't. Kinda simple. I'd also suggest avoiding high kicks on a grappler or BJJ fighter.

Makes it easy to get swept and that's their strong point.
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#173283 - 09/23/05 12:51 AM Re: High Kicks [Re: tookien1]
Marz Offline
Member

Registered: 07/26/05
Posts: 42
Loc: Iraq
Couple of things.

First, don't believe everything you see in movies. It is WIDELY known that what Bruce Lee did on film, was not the art he practiced in reality. Read any old interview with him and you will see this to be true. He DID NOT believe in high kicks (although Chuck Norris claims to have shown him the benefits of it). He says he put them in his movies for show. Did he change his mind towards the end of his life? Maybe he did? He never really says so.

Second, in Muay Thai, high kicks are NOT common. Those fighters that do use high kicks are not the norm in Thai boxing. You will rarely see a kick above the midsection in a Thai match as opposed to an American kickboxing match or a TKD tournament. Not to say they don't happen. It's just uncommon.

Lastly, as to the effectiveness of head kicks; I guess it would depend on the skill of the thrower, as well as the ability of the defender to defend, wouldn't it? In my TKD days, I was never very effective with head kicks. So, in my experience, never kick to the head! You, however, may be better at it than I.

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#173284 - 09/23/05 07:29 AM Re: High Kicks [Re: Marz]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Being a long time practitioner of Muay Thai, I do see a lot of High kicks, the reason? It's a show with lots of rules like Bruce Lee said "Too overdaring because of rules".

Imagine the normal poor village kid somewhere from the north of Thailand who are "adopted" and taken to these boxing camps. What they learn isn't real Muay Thai, it's more of a punch, kick, knee and elbow the sandbag and run 10 km everyday. This means, they don't really know Muay Thai, they just know how to kick the sandbag, and use that on the ring.

Now for real Muay Thai, aka, Muay Boran, High kick are only used after a. Parries b. Sidesteps c. Interception of attakcs. My master said a long time ago that "in a self defence situation, rely on your knee, elbow and fists as they won't put you off balance even when faced with multiple opponents".

I agree with Marz, when I sparred with others at my school, I have yet to see any good use of High kicks, methinks, the shin/low kick are a bit more effective and it doesn't break your balance. Most sparring at my school are done without gloves [bound fists], no rounds and no restriction on use of technique except no joint manipulation or strangulations.

Bruce Lee said once "Kicking to the head, is like crouching down to punch at the toes".

well, that was my 50 cent

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#173285 - 09/24/05 02:03 AM Re: High Kicks [Re: Taison]
Marz Offline
Member

Registered: 07/26/05
Posts: 42
Loc: Iraq
Hmmmmm.........like I said before, I haven't seen high kicks to be a truism in Muay Thai and I've seen matches in Thailand and that isn't how I was trained. Not that it doesn't happen, just that it isn't common. Maybe you're actually from Thailand and would have more depth of knowledge of Muay Thai than I, which is certainly possible, as I am no expert. That, however, has not been my experience. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that I have a different take on the subject.

I thought Muay Boran was something completely different from Muay Thai? Different like, "ain't no ballpark neither. It's not even in the same league, h#ll it ain't even the same sport!" (Samuel Jackson)

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#173286 - 09/24/05 04:34 AM Re: High Kicks [Re: Marz]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
If it wasn't for my half-thai bloodline, I wouldn't be able to learn the higher-tiers of Muay Boran.

Well, it's kinda hard to distinquish the two but try imagining Hapkido and TKD. Now you got the picture.

Muay Thai = All striking + clinching techniques.
Muay Boran = Muay Thai, locks, throws, disarms, weapons and more traditional techniques not the modern boxing + blind kicking.

It's is indeed not common for high kicks but you usually see 6-8 of them in every round in Lumpini stadium, Bangkok.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#173287 - 09/24/05 05:40 AM Re: High Kicks [Re: Taison]
Marz Offline
Member

Registered: 07/26/05
Posts: 42
Loc: Iraq
WELL.............I guess that settles that. Thank you for the lesson.

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#173288 - 09/30/05 04:50 AM Re: High Kicks [Re: tookien1]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
Just to add something else to the discussion, i believe that the vast majority of the time it is more ecomonically sound to kick to the waist or below. Think of it this way. your legs are the lower portions of your body, use them to attack and defend down there. What's the point of bringing them all the way uo to the head, when your hands are much closer and faster to react. these arts that throw ten kicks to the head each round, you have to question their efficiency. Not to knock anybody's "style". If you look at it from a jkd point of view, are you kicking to the head because it's the most appropriate thing to do, or simply because you prefer to do it. Or indeed are you showing off. I believe that high kicks have their place, but only as a variation or a surprise tactic. I have seen some fighters use them well, in fact, until recently, i had a problem in dealing with such an attack. Now i know that if someone throws a high kick, i have a quicker, more economical, lesser telegraphed attack.
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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#173289 - 09/30/05 09:37 AM Re: High Kicks [Re: jkdwarrior]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
METHOD OR STYLE not with standing if its open why not use it, have no restrains, you sweep a guy or stop kick his thigh he stumbles reaching for the ground. Head wide open back of head wide open!!!! You could step forward and hit him with your hands and he clinch using you to stand up.

You fient a low blow he waiting for it again, tunnel vision, set up for a high kick!! You could step forward and use your hands breaking his concentration as engage in a fist a cuff. Or end it by surprise!!!

Of course there are risk, but we know how to fight on the ground don't we? Just as they are anytime your limbs extend.
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DBAckerson

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#173290 - 09/30/05 04:10 PM Re: High Kicks [Re: Neko456]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
i'm not saying that you shouldn't use them. You will always be able to think of a situation where they are appropriate. i'm just saying that the VAST majority of times, and this does of course depend on what your opponent does, it is more appropriate to keep the kicks for hitting and defending below the waist if you're looking to fight in the most efficient manner possible.
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Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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