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#171862 - 08/03/05 01:44 PM Re: Throws designed to Kill? [Re: Leo_E_49]
glad2bhere Offline

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
".....People don't like to think they're wrong. They really don't like to think that what they have been taught is wrong in any way. I know this firsthand, having studied TKD, I was forced to see its flaws upon joining Jujutsu and accept the art for what it is. People place a great deal of faith in their teachers, generally believing what they are told without real justification and often times this can be abused. I agree with what you are doing, just not the way you are going about it....."

Yes, I had exactly the same epiphany in Hapkido. Not only was it amazing at how little actual understanding folks had of what they were doing or why, but there was almost a smugness at being able to resist investigating the art in a rational fashion. Note I am not just talking about reading the works of other Hapkido practitioners and being called on the carpet about that, but also examining similar activities, the histories and assertions of other cultures, and delving into just how the Human body works. It was some tortured paraphrase from TREASURE OF SIERRA MADRE ("Research? We doan nee no steenking RESEARCH!").

Best Wishes,


#171863 - 08/03/05 11:39 PM Re: Throws designed to Kill? [Re: glad2bhere]
JamesLightningBolton Offline

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 77
Loc: Victoria Australia
Maybe you need to learn to read say all i am doing is running of my sensei's word of mouth which has no evidence to support what he is saying but i simply believe it because he says so. Did you not read the examples i gave you..go back and read i also put some supporting evidence that makes alot of sense aswell. Do you think i am that stupid to just believe something without thinking about it and SEEING it.
You seem to be putting words in my mouth constantly and ignoring the supporting evidence i have provided. Using me as an example you say we should stop people spreading BS they know nothing about. Fair enough if it was BS, but what people getting on the net and telling people who actually know what they are talking about they are wrong...without providing any eveidence to support themselves. I provided my evidence, where is yours or will you just continously tell me i am spreading BS and go off topic?
I never said "all" throws were designed to be lethal. But some most definantly are. Have you really done all your research on this...perhaps before you tell me to..which i already have, you should do some of your own. Take care grandmaster... I am sure you will go far with your training

my last post on the issue

#171864 - 08/03/05 11:59 PM Re: Throws designed to Kill? [Re: JamesLightningBolton]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Seriously James, with a post like that, we will never hear the end of this. Maybe you could take your own advice and read the other posts first.

Really, y'all need to seriously chill. And I'm sure hoping the "bigger" person will show self-restraint.

Edited by eyrie (08/04/05 12:02 AM)

#171865 - 08/04/05 02:08 AM Re: Throws designed to Kill? [Re: eyrie]
JamesLightningBolton Offline

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 77
Loc: Victoria Australia
That was showing self restraint

#171866 - 08/04/05 02:14 AM Re: Throws designed to Kill? [Re: JamesLightningBolton]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Let's have everybody start showing even more self-restraint or this thread will go the way of the dodo.


#171867 - 08/04/05 03:40 AM Re: Throws designed to Kill? [Re: BigRod]
Foolsgold Offline

Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 1635
Loc: South Lyon, MI, USA
Wow, I just learned a whole lot. My thanks to all of you who contributed in whatever way. Flaming or no, there is a lot of good stuff in this thread to be gleaned.
Soy stupido, pero soy guapo!

#171868 - 08/04/05 07:59 AM Re: Throws designed to Kill? [Re: Foolsgold]
glad2bhere Offline

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
Dear Foolsgold:

Here is another little tidbit, since we are talking about "intent". In 1804 the HEIHO OKUGISHO was extracted from the larger work KOYOGUNKAN which was published early in the 17th century. The extract was later translated to English by Obata Toshishiro and published by Hawley Publication in 1994. I mention this because the range of skills covered in this book include grappling and sword work. Commonly the descriptions of the techniques include such closing comments as "and throw him", "and force him to the ground" and "and throw him forward". There is no reference anywhere to an intended taking of life. Now, in fairness, the sword descriptors likewise end in such instructions as "and cut him" or "and cut him immediately" so also being devoid of reference to taking life. Yet, in this latter case I don't know that anyone would expect a person using a sword or spear not to be thinking in terms of doing anything but working to kill his opponent.

I share this because we have been speaking of Kano and I thought perhaps that needed to be balanced with a citation from some older material. Perhaps it is some unwritten principle of the culture that one not state a lethal intent when writing of such things. Perhaps this was considered unseemly. I don't know. I just toss it out for whatever its worth.

Best Wishes,


#171869 - 06/17/07 05:43 PM Re: Throws designed to Kill? [Re: BigRod]
musicalmike235 Offline

Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 64
My lateral drop is powerful. Its a modification on the Hip Throw where after I get him over, I fall to the mat with the guy, me landing on top. The force generated by our combined weight upon impact is enough to potentially crush your rib cage. To give you an idea, it sort of looks like a belly to belly suplex.

Edited by musicalmike235 (06/17/07 06:02 PM)

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