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#171682 - 07/31/05 09:05 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: Kintama]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
When you first turned up I had a suspicion I could guess your connection. Your responses had that hollow tone of someone who was pressing a very definite agenda. Amazing that out of all of the threads I have posted over the years you should identify the two that you published. "Gee, what a coincidence." Maybe not such a coincidence given the people that are coaching you. Thanks for the confirmation.

No, I can pretty much guess that you are not going to apologize. Thanks for helping me get you pegged. We don't have to keep this on the thread. We CAN make this as personal as you care to.

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#171683 - 07/31/05 09:12 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: eyrie]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
Dear Eyrie:

Thanks for your effort. Its not that it wasn't appreciated. There are simply a lot more folks like Kintama on these Nets than others and the KMA never get any better because people who WOULD speak up just vote with their fingers or say nothing at all. As you can see from this thread ---- in an area purportedly for discussing EXACTLY these issues---- the overall tendency is to misdirect to HOW things are being said rather than WHAT is being said. And since the HOW is highly subjective one can go for pages of posts and never talk about the original issue.

This, then, is the nature of most of these Nets. Its not about discussion. Its about turf and propagating a particular point of view. I suppose I would not be too far wrong by characterizing it as a "commercial wolf" in "chatroom sheepskin", yes? Thanks again for your effort.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

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#171684 - 07/31/05 10:00 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Quote:


This, then, is the nature of most of these Nets. Its not about discussion. Its about turf and propagating a particular point of view.





Can you honestly say that you're not doing the same thing you profess to detest?

Kintama is calling it as he sees it. And I believe he isn't the only one. If it was just one person with a slightly skewed perspective, it could be questionable. But when a few people corroborate the same feelings, the perpertrator must be called into question. Don't you think?

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#171685 - 07/31/05 11:57 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
LOL. dude, I'm not who you think I am. Take your head out for a sec and listen up. this will be educational.
Not 'xactly saavy with the 'puters are ya. I've been using the internet since it was text based before browsers...so I'll hold your hand thru what actually is going on here.
first, I'll introduce myself:
Who I am-
Ed Morris, 38, software engineer, Massachusetts.
10 years of Goju and 6mo of Shorin.
I'm better than average at google and some other tools of my trade.

who I am not-
I'm not connected to any org that you are or have been with, nor do I know anyone that you know.
Nobody is feeding me info about you.
I do not have an agenda.
I don't care about your personal problems.

My MO for giving you such a hard time is simple - I am very offended by the manner you speak to people...this is hard to do since I don't get offended easily. I don't need to list your flaws, they show themselves clearer than any words I could put together.

I was offended enough to put my skills to work and find out more about you...since you obviously lack the imagination as to how I could possibly find links to use your own words against you - you decided it must be a conspiracy. laughable. you mentioned you are a councelor right? don't you need like, real psychology skills with people in person? and not some lame attempt to 'case study' people on forums which is extreamly offensive to me and others by the way. I out-psyched you and you don't like it. life's tough, buy a helmet.

now, where was I..oh yeah the education...here's how I did it: e-mail addresses are unique aren't they. one per customer. forums make you enter an e-mail address in when you join, don't they. so, in your own favorite expression "It's not rocket science" to google your e-mail address and viola, a footprint map of places you've trampled, trolled and taboo'd. but how did I get your e-mail address...hmmmm, I must have looked at your profile. another rocket science formula for ya, Mr. Wizard.

on topic:
Net responsibility? based on the forum conversations here and elsewhere, you are hardly an example of responsible. A councelor, teacher and yon-dan with 20-30 yrs of MA training and you behave like this? apparently even in person? {speechless expression}

Believe what you want or try to turn this into some psudo-psycho babble of group mentality case study to mask your own embarrassment -Whatever. ...everything I said is true, accurate and provable...I swear on my kintama.

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#171686 - 08/01/05 01:33 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: eyrie]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
Dear Eyrie:

Fair question. I think the most candid way to anser that is the following.

1.) I have no turf here.

2.) In the final analysis it matters to me not at all what these people decide to do. They were going to decide to do that anyhow and pretending that the decision is somehow predicated on what I say or do is yet one more way of shirking responsibility.

3.) I say again that we can talk forever about HOW I say things and the objections people have. What is NOT being talked about is WHAT I said. For as long as people want to use the language I can be identified as "insulting", "condescending" or any of a number of other things that have been written. And that can go on as long as people want to hear these things. Right now, if you wanted to take umbrage at what I have written we could repeat the same behavior yet again.

After the answer came back that people felt they had no real responsibility regarding content there really wasn't much else to say. I can't MAKE these folks want to check themselves. And instead of giving due regard to the times in which we live words like "paranoid" were thrown around.

I am pretty sure I have said all that I can say on the subject because I find myself repeating the same things over and over and I don't get any indication that folks want to hear what is being written. The excuses will continue that it is BECAUSE manner in which I am writing that people are unable to hear WHAT I am saying. I don't agree with this either. People hear what they want to hear and I get no indication that people want to hear these issues or act on them.As far as corroboration among a group of people I don't know that I would put a lot of stock in using that arguement. I recently had quite an experience over on BULLSHIDO where the folks were quite sure they had my number regarding traditonal MA. By your arguement I needed to more closely approximate THEIR POV. So if I was over on BULLSHIDO I would be in compliance with their values and over here I would be in compliance with the values on THIS Net, yes? Tell me you aren't making an arguement for "situation ethics". This would all be very accurate except for one small matter------ we are not talking about the issue I raised---- only the MANNER in which that issue was expressed. I submitt--- in the clearest possible terms--- that regardless of how I expressed myself the answer ultimately would STILL have been "not interested; not our problem". Nuff said?

Best Wishes,

Bruce


Edited by glad2bhere (08/01/05 01:45 AM)

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#171687 - 08/01/05 01:42 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
Nuff said.

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#171688 - 08/01/05 03:20 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Quote:

What is NOT being talked about is WHAT I said.




Your claim is that we as moderators and members alike are not taking responsibility for the information we present and whom we present it to, that we are possibly educating "terrorists" with information such as "sentry elimination" with discussions such as CQC. You then claim that we are basically refusing to discuss your accusations. Yet i have posed a question you have yet to address.

Quote:

I would like you provide an instance where one of the moderators blatantly fed "dangerous" information to a new practitioner.




Your quick to throw out accusations but you have yet to provide any evidence of these claims or specific points to discuss. Simple quotes will be fine.

How exactly is it YOU are going to lecture ME on antiterrorism? How am I not giving due regard for the times we live in? Just because you received a few "suspicious" phone calls prior to 9/11 you think you have cornered the market on this issue? That some how walking on eggshells and not discussing certain methods of training will somehow make it "more difficult" for "them" to gain this information? How exactly does this tie into this question?

Quote:

hey, what's a wooden tanto used for? Like, what's the art called? what's it like?




This is the question that sparked your rant about leaking info to terrorist right?

Quote:

Originally posted by glad2bhere:No, "dude", I Don't. I don't know you...... and I don't know what you are going to do with the information.

What I DO know is that before the 9-11 disaster in NY the Internet sites such as Dochang Digest and E-Budo had various inquiries regarding how one could learn to use a box-cutter as a weapon. I, myself, had a number of calls from people who were interested not in learning Hapkido but in specific aspects of hand-to-hand combat both emptyhand and using small knives as executed in confined spaces. I'm not saying there was any correlation although in truth I note that since that event I have received no more such calls.

Now since this Net is read in the UK, so how about if somebody sends me instructions on how to fabricate high-explosive anti-personnel packages that might be used in confined spaces and easily transportable. What do you think? I mean, you don't know who "I" am do you? And do you really know what I want the information for?

I mean, and why stop there? How about a dialogue on introducing microbes to city water supplies, or degrading national food sources.

Get a clue, dunce. You are on an internationally viewed Net which anyone with a keyboard can read, save and exploit. If you are too dumb or too lazy to do a simple GOOGLE on the subject when all it takes are some keystrokes can you really blame me for being suspicious? Think about the times we are in and why don't you check yourself?





You also like to talk of other people's agenda here when it seems to be you who has an agenda. Did you purposefully come here with the intention of using the members as lab mice or was it something you came up with later? Perhaps it's just your way of making excuses for your behavior.

Quote:

I recently had quite an experience over on BULLSHIDO where the folks were quite sure they had my number regarding traditonal MA. By your arguement I needed to more closely approximate THEIR POV. So if I was over on BULLSHIDO I would be in compliance with their values and over here I would be in compliance with the values on THIS Net, yes?




I guess we aren't the only ones to see through your BS.

Quote:

I submitt--- in the clearest possible terms--- that regardless of how I expressed myself the answer ultimately would STILL have been "not interested; not our problem".




Again, show me where a moderator of this forum has expressed any intention to offer potentially dangerous information to an inexperienced practitioner. Take a look through the forum and you will see not only them moderators but also several of the other members instructing them that they need to seek qualified instruction. Go ahead and count how many threads were locked or faded out because someone asked what the best pressure points to use in a fight were or what the fastest way to KO a person was. Your argument holds no weight for the simple fact that all you have done is rant and point fingers. You have yet to show any evidence of your claims.

I can also assure you that admin doesn't simply pick people to ban. If a member is sent on vacation it's because they broke the forum rules and not because of any conspiracy theory.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#171689 - 08/01/05 04:40 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
kickcatcher Offline
Member

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 200
Loc: UK
Reading the advice given on forums like this is more likely to confuse and defocus a would be sword maniac than give them sensible assistance. To kill someone with a knife or sword takes zero academic research. I say we encourage sword maniacs to come here and ask the experts on the best ways to deflect incoming blows, it might save a few lives, lol.
_________________________
Judokakakakaka!!!!!!!

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#171690 - 08/01/05 07:03 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: kickcatcher]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Amen!

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#171691 - 08/01/05 09:43 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: laf7773]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
OK, Lane. Lets do it YOUR way.

Here are three posts that to me represent the attitude that makes distributing information possible.

“……….Honestly, based on the parts of your post that I understand (not your fault) I don't really see a need to have an active censorship policy. I would venture to say that a large percentage of people here who actually have the knowledge of these things also have the ability to discern whether or not they should share this information. Many of the "deadly" moves posted on here are by kids who watch too much anime and have downloaded the anarchist's cookbook from Kazaa………..”

Joel


“…….There is no clear and present danger that any kid will go and do soething that we have advised anymore than a kid will buy a tech9 and shoot up his school.
The net provides information about anything to anyone and however scary that is, I think it is the most important invention since the wheel, it wopuld be a shame to have to fly all the way to the US in order to exchange opinions about MAs. Kids learn those techniques in school anyway, it doesnt matter what we tell them.
Obviousy bad advice is bad advice, but that can come from us or it can come from a McDojo, or it can come from a strasnger on the street. All this political correctness and legality and should we do this, and is it right of us to disclose potentially lethal info on a public forum; it does my head in…….”

And

“……And I dont think that it should be OUR responsibility to shield kids of this information. If someone is talking about killing someone, the thread would be deleted and stopped and the person banned (thats why we have moderators) but I dont think that information and bad advice is something that is a characteristic of this forum in particular, or something that can be avoided in society in general…….”

MAGr


OK? Now, look at my post in REALISTIC SWORD thread regarding the Kukri used by the Nepalese Gurhkas (Posted 7-30-05).

a,) An identified weapon of lethal intent.

b.) A training modality

c.) A resource for securing the piece

d.) Encouragement on how one might circumvent the usual restrictions.


Its not bad enough that some guy is writing in and effectively wants to know what the best sword to use in an urban setting is. But I purposely injected a questionable post and you folks don't seem to mind. And you know what, Lane. I already know what you are going to write back. "Hey! One post!" (BTW: I could have used the "Throws designed for killing" thread (See: the later posts from Kito-ryu) but I am satisfied that I have made my point.)

Know what, Lane? Stick it in your ear. I did my part. After a thread like this, take a wild guess how willing I am to pitch-in if I have any other recommendations or suggestions.

Have a nice life.


Edited by glad2bhere (08/01/05 10:00 AM)

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