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#171652 - 07/26/05 02:48 PM Net responsibility
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
Dear Folks:

Since I am not exactly sure how to address or to whom I am using this venue in the hope that individuals who manage this site will have a chance to consider my suggestion.

I am writing to suggest that either the policy o fhti Net switch to the posting or disclosure of the actual names and locations of the contributors

Or---

A moritorium be declared on the disclosure of potentially dangerous information. As we cannot know for certain to whom we are writing let alone who may be in LM as our notes are posted, I submitt that we are unable to actually control the distribution and use of potentially dangerous information on this site. Into this category I would include the making and conceealment of small weapons, close quarters fighting utilizing lethal methods (IE "sentry elimination") and the indiscriminant distribution of literature pertaining to subjects such as these.

I do not pretend that chosing not to allow such information on this site will preclude the distribution. However responsible adults will already know how and where to find such materials and information and are able to take responsibility for their actions. Minors and individuals of less than healthy intent may also ultimately get ahold of these materials but at least it will not be with your complicity. Thoughts? Comments?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

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#171653 - 07/27/05 01:47 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Quote:

I am writing to suggest that either the policy o fhti Net switch to the posting or disclosure of the actual names and locations of the contributors



Could you clarify please? Seems like a typo but I still don't understand.

Quote:

A moritorium be declared on the disclosure of potentially dangerous information. As we cannot know for certain to whom we are writing let alone who may be in LM



What?
Quote:

as our notes are posted, I submitt that we are unable to actually control the distribution and use of potentially dangerous information on this site. Into this category I would include the making and conceealment of small weapons, close quarters fighting utilizing lethal methods (IE "sentry elimination") and the indiscriminant distribution of literature pertaining to subjects such as these.

I do not pretend that chosing not to allow such information on this site will preclude the distribution. However responsible adults will already know how and where to find such materials and information and are able to take responsibility for their actions. Minors and individuals of less than healthy intent may also ultimately get ahold of these materials but at least it will not be with your complicity. Thoughts? Comments?

Best Wishes,

Bruce




Honestly, based on the parts of your post that I understand (not your fault) I don't really see a need to have an active censorship policy. I would venture to say that a large percentage of people here who actually have the knowledge of these things also have the ability to discern whether or not they should share this information. Many of the "deadly" moves posted on here are by kids who watch too much anime and have downloaded the anarchist's cookbook from Kazaa.

Just my take on it
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#171654 - 07/27/05 09:26 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: JoelM]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
Dear Joel:
Sorry about the miscommunication the sentence was intended to read
“I am writing to suggest that the policy of this Net switch to the posting or disclosure of the actual names and locations of the contributors…..”
Or
“…… that a moratorium be declared on the disclosure of potentially dangerous information. As we cannot know for certain to whom we are writing let alone who may be in LM (“lurk mode”) .



What I am suggesting is not censorship as much as a responsible management of what information is distributed through this Net. There are, for instance, a great number of threads on people wanting to use swords in demonstration or wanting to know about cutting materials. This is very different from a person who wants information in how sword might be used if one found themselves in a streetfight. Currently we have an active thread in which a person wants to know where to look to find information on fighting with a dagger. What about discussions concerning the best choke to use? How about a discussion of the best way to break a persons’ arm?

I agree very strongly that the truly well-informed practitioner is in a place to regulate himself in the understanding and use of this information. However, it has become increasingly apparent to me that there are not a few kids on this Net and based on the responses I have seen they are not getting a whole lot of guidance regarding what they are about in the MA. It would help me to know that people who are watching over this Net are concerned with how information might be used and conduct themselves accordingly. Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

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#171655 - 07/27/05 09:51 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
This forum is not a website where kids ask adults questions and adults decide what to write and what not to write. Its a discussion forum where people with similar interests get together to discuss MAs. If we were all to fly to a specified location and talk about it would that make it better? Its the same thing, we are discussing and debating MAs not advising kids. If kids want to participate in the conversation then that should be fine by us. It is the parents' business whether they should be allowed to participate in the forums. If I tell you what is the best way to kill someone, then a gun is the best way to kill someone, doesnt mean you are going to go and do it. There are no legal ramifications for telling people about techniques or how to use a knife, or which is the best knife. We are talking about honing martial ability which cannot happen without training. So if I tell a kid that the throat is a sensitive area, that does not mean that they can go away and apply that to their friends.

There is no clear and present danger that any kid will go and do soething that we have advised anymore than a kid will buy a tech9 and shoot up his school.
The net provides information about anything to anyone and however scary that is, I think it is the most important invention since the wheel, it wopuld be a shame to have to fly all the way to the US in order to exchange opinions about MAs. Kids learn those techniques in school anyway, it doesnt matter what we tell them.
Obviousy bad advice is bad advice, but that can come from us or it can come from a McDojo, or it can come from a strasnger on the street. All this political correctness and legality and should we do this, and is it right of us to disclose potentially lethal info on a public forum; it does my head in.

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#171656 - 07/27/05 10:01 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: MAGr]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
Dear MAGr:

I understand what you are saying, and just for clarities sake let me go a bit farther and say this is not about Political correctness. For me it is about stepping across that line where we stop dabbling in the realm of "martial theatre" and start actually giving out information that can injure.

Most of the people I am hearing on this Net are probably not going to do much more than dress-up and parade around in a dochang. They have their illusions about what they are really doing and there are always folks standing in the wings ready to charge for a test or collect tuition in support of these illusions. Thats fine. Harmless role-play.

Now, what happens if someone ISN'T role-playing. There is no teacher, or peer to help them keep their feet on the ground. And what if that person doesn't have a real good grip of reality to begin with? What if the person we are talking about isn't even signed in but just happens to kibbutz from OUTSIDE of the conversation?

I am NOT saying that the NET is inappropriate. What I am saying is that maybe folks need to think a bit deeper about whats being said and who may be listening. Thoughts?

If you are still having trouble understanding where I am coming from let me give you a thought.

How would you react if, say, I started a discussion on the sword forum entitled------

"Can a sword cut a cat/dog in two?"

Does this help you see my point?

Best Wishes,

Bruce


Edited by glad2bhere (07/27/05 10:08 AM)

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#171657 - 07/27/05 10:39 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Quote:

Most of the people I am hearing on this Net are probably not going to do much more than dress-up and parade around in a dochang. They have their illusions about what they are really doing and there are always folks standing in the wings ready to charge for a test or collect tuition in support of these illusions. Thats fine. Harmless role-play.



Personally I find that insulting to the vast majority of members in this forum, there is a much larger amount of non-role-playing people here than those who are roleplaying.

back on topic:
Quote:

Now, what happens if someone ISN'T role-playing. There is no teacher, or peer to help them keep their feet on the ground. And what if that person doesn't have a real good grip of reality to begin with? What if the person we are talking about isn't even signed in but just happens to kibbutz from OUTSIDE of the conversation?



Anoybody who wants to get the info will get it somewhere or find another way to harm people/places/things. I honestly see no reason to censor ourselves.

Quote:

What I am saying is that maybe folks need to think a bit deeper about whats being said and who may be listening. Thoughts?



No, they don't need to think about it any more than they already do.

Quote:

How would you react if, say, I started a discussion on the sword forum entitled------

"Can a sword cut a cat/dog in two?"




A ridiculous post like that would be flamed and then deleted.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#171658 - 07/27/05 10:49 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Quote:

I am writing to suggest that either the policy o fhti Net switch to the posting or disclosure of the actual names and locations of the contributors

Or---






You want to show our actual names and locations!!! H.E. double hockey sticks NO!

Quote:

A moritorium be declared on the disclosure of potentially dangerous information. As we cannot know for certain to whom we are writing let alone who may be in LM as our notes are posted, I submitt that we are unable to actually control the distribution and use of potentially dangerous information on this site. Into this category I would include the making and conceealment of small weapons, close quarters fighting utilizing lethal methods (IE "sentry elimination") and the indiscriminant distribution of literature pertaining to subjects such as these.





Like what kind of switchblade do I buy? I think that post was handled well as many others have been.
I am for not giving 'lethal' advice to minors and being responsible in your posts,but I think the forum handles these kinds of things well already.
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#171659 - 07/27/05 11:17 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
Quote:

And what if that person doesn't have a real good grip of reality to begin with?



Then I dont think it matters where they get their advice from they would still use it in a wrong way.

Quote:

What if the person we are talking about isn't even signed in but just happens to kibbutz from OUTSIDE of the conversation?



What if he buys a book? Do book stores regulate who is allowed and who is not allowed to buy books that give MA instructions on how to throw a knife properly?

Quote:

I am NOT saying that the NET is inappropriate. What I am saying is that maybe folks need to think a bit deeper about whats being said and who may be listening. Thoughts?



I dont care who is listening any more than I would care if I was having a coffe with a friend and someone was listening.

Quote:

How would you react if, say, I started a discussion on the sword forum entitled------

"Can a sword cut a cat/dog in two?"




What if he asked his friend this question?

I dont think you understand what I am saying. You are saying that this forum can be a source of potentially dangerous information. What I am saying is that the whole world is a source of potentially dangerous information, I dont think that the benefits of restricting discussions outweigh the costs of fostering interesting debates.
And I dont think that it should be OUR responsibility to shield kids of this information. If someone is talking about killing someone, the thread would be deleted and stopped and the person banned (thats why we have moderators) but I dont think that information and bad advice is something that is a characteristic of this forum in particular, or something that can be avoided in society in general.

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#171660 - 07/27/05 12:40 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: JoelM]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
Dear Joel:

Maybe its just me but the folks here seem to be inordinately easy to "insult".

I made an observation on the thread I mentioned and "my" post was "inappropriate". This seems to underscore the idea that what is "appropriate" has more to do with what is consistent with how you see the world coming together. For instance I just mentioned that I was NOT advocating censorship. That does not stop yet another person using that word to describe my effort.

And I never said that people could not find the same information other places. I am wondering why this net needs to contribute to that ease.

If I am understanding the jist of this response to my post it might be encapsulated as follows.

a.) You want to do what you want to do when you want to do it, because you want to do it.

b.) You object to having responsibilities pointed out to you

c.) You have you ideas of what constitutes authentic MA and your resent having people disagree with you.

d.) You harbor a special irritation for people who point up your illusions for what they are and would rather act out against such a person than rethink the possibility that a reassessment is in order.

Now--- if what I have written is anywhere NEAR correct I suggest that while it is fun to run a NEt like the "big people" do you need to wake up and understand that having a Net entails meeting certain responsibilities. Thats not because "I" say so, friends, thats just the way that it is. Like it or not. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

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#171661 - 07/27/05 01:23 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Quote:

Maybe its just me but the folks here seem to be inordinately easy to "insult".



Maybe you're just too good at insulting people.

Quote:

For instance I just mentioned that I was NOT advocating censorship. That does not stop yet another person using that word to describe my effort.



You want to limit the range of discussion of certain topics on this site, that's called censorship. Let's not play the semantics game.

a.) Basically, yes.

b.) Not at all, but what you are pointing out are not my responsibilities.

c.) I do have ideas and I do enjoy having them challenged, making me think and analyze. I resent know-it-alls coming in and telling me what's what with an air of so-called superiority and a severe lack of respect.

d.) I harbor a special irritation for those who are here for no other purpose than to spawn hate and animosity with their illusions of martial grandeur.

Quote:

Now--- if what I have written is anywhere NEAR correct



No, not really.

Quote:

I suggest that while it is fun to run a NEt like the "big people" do you need to wake up and understand that having a Net entails meeting certain responsibilities.



And those certain responsibilities have been pointed out to me and all of the moderators by the Administrators of this website. Nothing you have proposed has been included in that list of responsibilities, so I will not enforce anything like that.

Quote:

Thats not because "I" say so, friends, thats just the way that it is.



Another one of those unspoken/unwritten rules? Sorry, buddy, if it's not writen, then I have no obligation to follow it and no desire to.

Quote:

Like it or not. FWIW.



Don't like it because it's not a fact. INWA (It's Not Worth Anything).


I honestly do understand what you're advocating here, but I am 100% against having an stated policy of censorship/(whatever you want to call it) and I will take no part in doing that unless told to do so by the Administrators of this website.

Good Day.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#171662 - 07/27/05 02:01 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
You did not "make an observation" you mocked the individual and made them out to be an idiot. Here is the question.
Quote:

hey, what's a wooden tanto used for? Like, what's the art called? what's it like?




and here was your response.
Quote:

Oh wow, like its for killin' guys in wooden armour, ya know? Like these totally heinous dudes have got ya by the short ones, ya know? So you use your wooden tanto on 'em, ya know? 'Cept like if they are TOTALLY evil! Then, man its like time to pull yer wooden Lone Ranger, ya know? Rad if not eternally narley.

Best Wishes,

Bruce




How is that an observation? It's flat out rude and inappropriate. You are using the premise that you are concerned about the well being of the youth or the possible threat of terrorism to cover for you inappropriate behavior. Here in this thread you claim your concern is for children who may be reading and possibly trying these things but in the thread you mentioned you claim your concern is for possible terrorists who may be reading. Which is it? Like i said in that thread. This is the fighting arts forum not antiterrorism.com or parentalcontrol.net. It is not your obligation to make fun of people who you feel are unworthy of such information.

I think you need to reflect on these two points you made here.

Quote:

c.) You have you ideas of what constitutes authentic MA and your resent having people disagree with you.

d.) You harbor a special irritation for people who point up your illusions for what they are and would rather act out against such a person than rethink the possibility that a reassessment is in order.




The majority of the moderators here and admin have done an exceptional job of sifting through the garbage and promoting legitimate topics. Just because YOU have and issue with something doesn't mean we all need to cater to your desires.

Plain and simple, if you don't agree with a topic report it. You don't have the right to flame someone because you feel they are going to POSSIBLY misuse the information they are given. If you have such a low opinion of MOST of the members here then why remain here. What good could come from discussions with people who are so far below you?
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#171663 - 07/27/05 02:34 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Wow, so many points to go over -

Quote:

Currently we have an active thread in which a person wants to know where to look to find information on fighting with a dagger. What about discussions concerning the best choke to use? How about a discussion of the best way to break a persons’ arm?




Many of the techniques you describe have sporting applications. How can you propose seperating the description of, say, an armbar for competetion vs, SD? Do we just not discusss them at all?

Quote:

However, it has become increasingly apparent to me that there are not a few kids on this Net and based on the responses I have seen they are not getting a whole lot of guidance regarding what they are about in the MA.




Are you talking about THIS forum? Good God, the most common response from the mods to training questions is "Join a school." This is not responsible?

Quote:

Most of the people I am hearing on this Net are probably not going to do much more than dress-up and parade around in a dochang. They have their illusions about what they are really doing and there are always folks standing in the wings ready to charge for a test or collect tuition in support of these illusions. Thats fine. Harmless role-play.




LOL! "They" do, huh? But not you! LMAO!!! Very condescending, Bruce.

Quote:

And what if that person doesn't have a real good grip of reality to begin with?




Quote:

How would you react if, say, I started a discussion on the sword forum entitled------

"Can a sword cut a cat/dog in two?"





You are kidding, right? We are suposed to manage info for the mentally unbalanced? They are ALREADY mentally unbalanced. Anything could set them off.

Quote:

And I never said that people could not find the same information other places. I am wondering why this net needs to contribute to that ease.




Because this is a discussion forum about MARTIAL ARTS. The internet is like a library. People will misuse info if they really want to. And they will find it if they really want to, here or someplace else. What do you recommend we discuss on this martial arts forum if we can not discuss technique? The sky is NOT falling.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#171664 - 07/27/05 03:31 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: laf7773]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
Know what, Lane? You can probably do a lot of things including saddle somebody with your own inadequacies. You can do it any time or place you want to. You just can't do it with me.

The comments about a "wooden tanto" got exactly the answer it deserved. If the person knew enough to call it a tanto and not a knife draw your OWN conclusions. Everybody who read that post drew the same conclusion. Its was a stupid gratuitous question and it got the gratutitous answer it deserved. You don't like my answer, post a better one.

I also suggest that you look-up the word "condescension". Its NOT condescension when a person actually DOES know quite a bit more than someone else and take exception to gross stupidity. I have had the questionable distinction of reading what passes for informed responses and can tell you plainly that I could drive a truck between an accurate response and what passes from you as "information". I am quite sure you enjoy passing yourself off as well-informed. You're not, and banging on me because of your own inadequacies is not going to help that.

In conclusion I have a pretty good idea of what you THINK you are accomplishing here and I think you may want to warm-up to the idea that the current assessment is that your Net in its current incarnation is to MA what a high school newletter is to Journalism. You have done little more than point out that you don't like what I am saying. You have done NOTHING to demonstrate that I am wrong.

Regards,

Bruce

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#171665 - 07/27/05 04:10 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
I have an idea! Delete this pointless thred, because a lot of people here have wasted around 10 min of their lives!

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#171666 - 07/28/05 01:47 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Feel free to point out anywhere i ever used the term "condescension" or said you don't know what you are talking about. I stated fact; it is NOT your job to ridicule others for their lack of knowledge. I have never claimed to be the all knowing, as you seem to think you are, nor have i ever put anyone else down for his or her lack of knowledge. If you actually know as much as you claim then you should be educating younger less experienced members and not making fun of them. I never have taken issue with any productive thread of yours but your abuse toward other members will not be tolerated no matter how you try to disguise or justify it.

Quote:

Know what, Lane? You can probably do a lot of things including saddle somebody with your own inadequacies. You can do it any time or place you want to. You just can't do it with me.




Again feel free to show me where i have tried to "saddle" you with my inadequacies. Please. All i did was warn you against your rude behavior toward other members. Either you are displaying a typical trollish "come back" or you are truly paranoid. Don't let your delusions of grandeur get the best of you.

Quote:

In conclusion I have a pretty good idea of what you THINK you are accomplishing here and I think you may want to warm-up to the idea that the current assessment is that your Net in its current incarnation is to MA what a high school newletter is to Journalism. You have done little more than point out that you don't like what I am saying. You have done NOTHING to demonstrate that I am wrong.




Well firstly this isn't MY site it belongs to Mr. Caile. I only volunteer my time to enforce the rules he has set in place. I'll ask again, if you have such a low opinion of this site and it's members, why are you here? I'm sure your witty demeanor would be more welcome among more knowledgeable and experienced people. No i don't like what you are saying in regards to how you are treating other members. Your conspiracy theories however are a bit of a laugh. What exactly is it i am to be proving wrong? Are you confusing me with one of the many other moderators who have taken issue with your behavior? It would seem so since all i have told you is basically to behave.


Have a coke and a smile...
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#171667 - 07/29/05 09:04 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
You know Bruce, it is far easier to feed some story about supposedly unjust social treatment to a young impressionable person to get them to strap a bomb to their body and sacrifice themselves in the name of some "just" cause than it is to teach some supposedly "secret" martial technique (for sentry removal!???) in this forum.

Why you choose to stoop to the mentality of the average 15 yo testosterone induced geek on this board is quite beyond me. I've read some of your posts on AikidoJournal. Your posts here seem to be a far cry from the intelligent and mature commentary you make over there.

Personally, I would prefer to see more of the level of quality posts you make over at AikidoJournal here, rather than the gratuitous potshots you've been hurling lately.

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#171668 - 07/30/05 01:33 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: eyrie]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
Dear Eyrie:

Nothing would give me greater pleasure, but it is quickly coming to my understanding that is NOT what people want. Yes, I KNOW. Ask anyone and they will TELL you that intelligent discourse, soundly researched information and aspirations to being a better person is what they are seeking. Then watch their behavior.

I have a couple of "acid tests" that I have used to experiment with this and the results are sickeningly consistent. One experiment is to post an intelligent and thoughtful queirie into some aspect of MA and then record the number of responses over a one week period. Then, post a salacious and gratutious thread requiring only spontaneous opinion. Guess which one gets the most posts?

Another experiment is to enter into an existing or on-going thread and begin to introduce information in the form of facts, resources and citations. The longest survivor went three days before the dialogue stopped completely. Fastest thread killing questions? a.) Do you have the name and contact information of the person who told you that? b.) Where did you read that and when? c.) Do you have and suggestions for articles or books that can give me more information on that?

I have been advocating for a more thoughtful and thoroughly researched approach to the KMA for some years now and I can tell you with little fear of contradiction that the greater population of the KMA simply do not want it. They want the image of what they would "like" the KMA to be: powerful, romantic and deadly. They are not interested in the KMA as it really is: hard work, service oriented and demanding.

The upshot, then, is that if there is little likelihood of raising the quality of what other people are doing the best I can hope for is to see if I can at least slow the bleeding, as it were. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce


Edited by glad2bhere (07/30/05 01:35 AM)

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#171669 - 07/30/05 05:39 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
And that would be reason enough to stoop to their level??
How does perpetuating bad behavioural examples engender change? I'm not sure I follow the logic....

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#171670 - 07/30/05 08:34 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: eyrie]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
Dear Eryie:

As a teacher I can only teach people who want to learn. I can't "make" people grow. I have a lot to share but that does not mean that other people are going to value it. If you have been to the Aikido Journal Net you have seen some of the responses. If you examine some of the responses here you will see some of the same mind set. If you examine the huge thread over on BULLSHIDO you will see such thinking even more plainly. Sometimes the response is disguised in an objection to my writing, and sometimes it is framed in terms of authority and still other times it is attacked for personal reasons. However, in the end it always comes back to the same position. people want things the way they want to believe and not necessarily as the facts might dictate or even in some manner which might be better for them. A good counselor will tell you that a patient must be taken where THEY are at.

I can do a lot of things including point up how outlandish it is to simply give underdeveloped practitioners what they ask for merely because it is what they ask for. In the end, however, people are going to ask for whatever it is that they want whether they can handle it or not. And there is simply nothing I can do about that, except perhaps, point out the potential for non-growth or injury. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

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#171671 - 07/30/05 09:19 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
That is certainly no reason to debase this forum or degenerate to the level of intellectual maturity prevalent on that forum. I agree, you can't "make" people grow, but as "elders" in the martial art community, you can certainly help them long the path. That, I'm sure you (being of someone of your standing) can understand.

How you help or hinder them in their development speaks volumes to others, and as a teacher of the arts, we are merely guides to others on the path of life.

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#171672 - 07/30/05 10:44 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: eyrie]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
Dear Eryie:

I cannot fault a single thing you are saying. What I am here to point out is that such a reasoned and well-balanced approach is the distinct minority on Nets such as this, and its that way because people WANT it that way. For example, note how many people are engaged in our brief exchange right at this particular moment. Lets see--- there is you, of course. Then there is me. And of course, there is also you... and well... me... What happened to all of the people with the nasty one-liners, the cracks about ninjas and the objections to making Martial Arts "new age" by emphasizing development of the Character? Oh sure--- reasoned people are out there somewhere. But after you get them to overcome their fear of speaking up, and their fear of being flamed, and their fear of being disenfranchised for being too "intellectual" whom do you really have? This entire thread that we are using started up with the premise that the Net itself take a hand in things and you can read back over the response that I received, yes?

Is there a need for intelligent dialogue? Damn right?

Is there a need for oversight? Absolutely?

Is there a need for accurate information? Without a doubt.

Do the people commonly found on these Nets want such interventions? NOT IF IT CONFLICTS WITH THEIR COMMONLY HELD BELIEFS, RIGHT OR WRONG.

They want what they believe to be accepted as good and fair and just as they conceive of it and not the way it may be in fact. Certainly its a textbook definition of irresponsibility and immaturity and its a pain in the butt to those of us who thought the Internet held so much more promise.

At a recent demo of computerware a salesman at a neighboring mall mentioned that the item being demo-d was "damn-near fool-proof" and "Any fool can use this." I was immediately taken back to the corollary to Murphys' Law that states that "if you make something fool-proof, only fools will use it." I think I can make a case for that statement on many of these same Nets. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce


Edited by glad2bhere (07/30/05 10:45 AM)

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#171673 - 07/30/05 11:34 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by G2BH -

Quote:

For example, note how many people are engaged in our brief exchange right at this particular moment. Lets see--- there is you, of course. Then there is me. And of course, there is also you...




Oh boy. Could it be:

A) This is posted in one of the least traveled forums

B) Other people may think you are over-analyzing or making too much of the situation

C) Other people may feel that it is not worth debating with someone who's POV is not likely to be changed

BTW - while you are correct that this thread has not gotten many responses compared to others, many people have been keeping an eye on it. (100+ views)
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#171674 - 07/30/05 12:46 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
If you truly want to raise the level of discussion here then i suggest you stop the rude and insulting posts. Many of your responses as of late have been completely uncalled for. I would like you provide an instance where one of the moderators blatantly fed "dangerous" information to a new practitioner. As far as i have seen the majority of the moderators and a larger number of the members here try to discourage new practitioners from trying anything on their own. Instead the norm is to direct them to proper instruction. Your perception of what is happening on this forum is just that, your perception and you are blowing it out of proportion. I do agree with you on the amount of participants and the length of the more meaningful threads. It is rare for deeper conversations to run long but the reason for that doesn't seem to be due to a lack of interest since the number of views on those threads tends to be pretty high. The fact may be that many of the people viewing the thread don't have any information to offer that hasn't been covered or they don't want to derail one of the few good discussions with a question for clarification. You also claim you only have two participants in this thread when the fact is you only have one other participant who hasn't directly questioned your behavior. I said from the beginning that my only issue with you was your behavior toward various members. While i do feel that some of the questions are redundant it's not your place to flame them for asking a question. It is also not your place to decide what they should be told on an open forum. It is the moderator’s responsibility to filter this information and if you don't agree with that you need to refer to the forum rules again. Claiming you are reacting to member’s posts as you did with Iamdadude because you are worried about possible terrorists isn't going to fly. More than one moderator has warned you more than once about your behavior and i suggest you tone down the insults. You may have a low opinion of me or any of the other moderators but i can assure you that you don't know a single member here enough to make the assessments you have made. All i did was tell you to refrain from your insults and your response was to insult me. This sort of behavior is unacceptable regardless of who it is directed toward.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#171675 - 07/30/05 12:47 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
G2BH,

And yes, I have also been looking in on your little tirade. Though I agree with a lot of your thoughts and have felt many of your posts reasonable and educating, there is mixed in them, at times, a feeling of anger and irritation...and yes, paranoia. Whenever you have posted and I thought I had something to give, I wrote it. Whenever I had nothing to say or chime in about...note the Throws Designed to Kill thread...I won't say anything. I am not an expert, just a practioner.

However, I keep getting the feeling that you are trying to tell everyone that you have the map and that folks should be following your directions. Well it just ain't going to happen. The irritating points in your posts were brought up by Eyrie and Lane, to whom you did sound condescending, where I did not detect the same tone in their responses.

If you are doing theses posts at times as sport as you suggested to either bait people for their responses or to say ah-ha...I knew this would happen, then again, I see this is as a lack of decorum on your part.

One cannot disabuse others of their reasons for posting or some for their youthful, misguided attempts to find meaning in a MA world that they have just barely started to explore. It seems to me that you have had a bad time with some of the folks that orbit your MA planet and this irritation gets projected here...and sometimes aimed at some good people. This is not a good thing.

Like I said, I enjoy your posts when they present your take on things in a reasoned rebuttal...but when you try to point to others and yell you are stupid and wrong, this does not illicit a feeling of wanting to confront your arguments and learn....all I and others hear is the yelling...and not the words.

-B

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#171676 - 07/30/05 04:10 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: laf7773]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
Hey, Lane? Whatever.

"Rude and insulting posts"? Oh, you mean the posts that aire a view inconsistent with yours?

Yeah, well, its been very insightful, there, tons-'o-fun, but I think I have a pretty good grip on how things work around here.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled delusions

Regards.

.

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#171677 - 07/30/05 06:36 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
G2BH,
GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE!! I suppose your kaka smells like roses too?
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#171678 - 07/30/05 07:03 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
Nothing more than an evolved species of troll.
The insults wouldn't be so bad if they at least had a sense of humor to them. Habitual humorless insults paint a picture of sadness and deep paranoia probably rooted from an experience which has led him to general mistrust of people. which really would be unfortunate given his (probable) knowledge to share.
Still, he's been banned from several other forums.... everyone is wrong and HE is right? who's delusional.

Ignore him like any common troll and he'll either crawl back to his cave and simmer or perhaps come back to his senses when he gets lonely.

contrary to what you believe about me g2bh, nobody is out to get you or create enemies. I'd like for you to challenge yourself and try to post without insults or air of superiority....if you are as great as you think you are, you should have no trouble making that adjustment. It's true I've insulted you before in retaliation, so I have my own issues and improvements to deal with...the difference is that I know I'm not perfect nor do I think I'm closer to perfection than anyone else.... including the 17 yearolds who post with 'dude' in thier sentences. There is something to be learned from everyone.
good luck.

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#171679 - 07/30/05 10:22 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Well, I tried.... It seems that some people need to take their own advice, coz I certainly can't make them "grow up".

I was trying to help save "face", but it seems you can't help those that insist on lowering their own standards and succumbing to popular opinion, because the reality is, it is much harder to be humble, rise above it all and just let the inconsequential slide.

I think the number of people who have since jumped in to this thread (largely due to the time difference this side of the world!), speaks volumes to the way they feel about the whole issue.

Perhaps it would be prudent for everyone to just back down a little and reflect on the real and more important issues.

As far as I'm concerned, the juvenile and testoterone-challenged will weed themselves out and get bored when they can't keep up with the higher levels of intelligent discussion. Adding more noise to the din, doesn't make it any quieter.

Non-action is sometimes more powerful than jumping onto a high horse and yelling for attention. It certainly wastes a lot less energy....

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#171680 - 07/31/05 02:45 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: Kintama]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
You still owe me a public apology for making a false statement on BULLSHIDO Net. There never was a "threatened suit" by some "sensei". You knew that to be false at the time and you still represented it as true. It was a shallow attempt at making yourself seem to know more than you did at someone elses expense. Paranoia is a "neurotic fear" and it is not paranoia if a person really IS saying untrue and hurtful things.

Your posts carry no validity with me.

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#171681 - 07/31/05 03:54 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
not true. and I'm still waiting for your appology to this entire forum.

You know I can't prove what I read, because the posts have been deleted. I read an exchange between you and an owner of a club in which he asked you to stop harrassing him or you can talk to his lawyer.
On bullshido, I did offer an appology IF what I read was not true...in other words if the sensei was falsly accusing you of something you didn't do. There was more, but I don't want to get involved with your personal problems.

This is a question of YOUR net responsibility of not treating people like lab animals and morons. I take great offense to some of your posts...thats the only reason I point out your flaws and lack of character. guess what, your behavior has turned that microscope around on you.

p.s.
How's this for validity:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthr...age=1&pp=15
or did I type all that in myself?

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#171682 - 07/31/05 09:05 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: Kintama]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
When you first turned up I had a suspicion I could guess your connection. Your responses had that hollow tone of someone who was pressing a very definite agenda. Amazing that out of all of the threads I have posted over the years you should identify the two that you published. "Gee, what a coincidence." Maybe not such a coincidence given the people that are coaching you. Thanks for the confirmation.

No, I can pretty much guess that you are not going to apologize. Thanks for helping me get you pegged. We don't have to keep this on the thread. We CAN make this as personal as you care to.

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#171683 - 07/31/05 09:12 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: eyrie]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
Dear Eyrie:

Thanks for your effort. Its not that it wasn't appreciated. There are simply a lot more folks like Kintama on these Nets than others and the KMA never get any better because people who WOULD speak up just vote with their fingers or say nothing at all. As you can see from this thread ---- in an area purportedly for discussing EXACTLY these issues---- the overall tendency is to misdirect to HOW things are being said rather than WHAT is being said. And since the HOW is highly subjective one can go for pages of posts and never talk about the original issue.

This, then, is the nature of most of these Nets. Its not about discussion. Its about turf and propagating a particular point of view. I suppose I would not be too far wrong by characterizing it as a "commercial wolf" in "chatroom sheepskin", yes? Thanks again for your effort.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

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#171684 - 07/31/05 10:00 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Quote:


This, then, is the nature of most of these Nets. Its not about discussion. Its about turf and propagating a particular point of view.





Can you honestly say that you're not doing the same thing you profess to detest?

Kintama is calling it as he sees it. And I believe he isn't the only one. If it was just one person with a slightly skewed perspective, it could be questionable. But when a few people corroborate the same feelings, the perpertrator must be called into question. Don't you think?

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#171685 - 07/31/05 11:57 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
LOL. dude, I'm not who you think I am. Take your head out for a sec and listen up. this will be educational.
Not 'xactly saavy with the 'puters are ya. I've been using the internet since it was text based before browsers...so I'll hold your hand thru what actually is going on here.
first, I'll introduce myself:
Who I am-
Ed Morris, 38, software engineer, Massachusetts.
10 years of Goju and 6mo of Shorin.
I'm better than average at google and some other tools of my trade.

who I am not-
I'm not connected to any org that you are or have been with, nor do I know anyone that you know.
Nobody is feeding me info about you.
I do not have an agenda.
I don't care about your personal problems.

My MO for giving you such a hard time is simple - I am very offended by the manner you speak to people...this is hard to do since I don't get offended easily. I don't need to list your flaws, they show themselves clearer than any words I could put together.

I was offended enough to put my skills to work and find out more about you...since you obviously lack the imagination as to how I could possibly find links to use your own words against you - you decided it must be a conspiracy. laughable. you mentioned you are a councelor right? don't you need like, real psychology skills with people in person? and not some lame attempt to 'case study' people on forums which is extreamly offensive to me and others by the way. I out-psyched you and you don't like it. life's tough, buy a helmet.

now, where was I..oh yeah the education...here's how I did it: e-mail addresses are unique aren't they. one per customer. forums make you enter an e-mail address in when you join, don't they. so, in your own favorite expression "It's not rocket science" to google your e-mail address and viola, a footprint map of places you've trampled, trolled and taboo'd. but how did I get your e-mail address...hmmmm, I must have looked at your profile. another rocket science formula for ya, Mr. Wizard.

on topic:
Net responsibility? based on the forum conversations here and elsewhere, you are hardly an example of responsible. A councelor, teacher and yon-dan with 20-30 yrs of MA training and you behave like this? apparently even in person? {speechless expression}

Believe what you want or try to turn this into some psudo-psycho babble of group mentality case study to mask your own embarrassment -Whatever. ...everything I said is true, accurate and provable...I swear on my kintama.

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#171686 - 08/01/05 01:33 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: eyrie]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
Dear Eyrie:

Fair question. I think the most candid way to anser that is the following.

1.) I have no turf here.

2.) In the final analysis it matters to me not at all what these people decide to do. They were going to decide to do that anyhow and pretending that the decision is somehow predicated on what I say or do is yet one more way of shirking responsibility.

3.) I say again that we can talk forever about HOW I say things and the objections people have. What is NOT being talked about is WHAT I said. For as long as people want to use the language I can be identified as "insulting", "condescending" or any of a number of other things that have been written. And that can go on as long as people want to hear these things. Right now, if you wanted to take umbrage at what I have written we could repeat the same behavior yet again.

After the answer came back that people felt they had no real responsibility regarding content there really wasn't much else to say. I can't MAKE these folks want to check themselves. And instead of giving due regard to the times in which we live words like "paranoid" were thrown around.

I am pretty sure I have said all that I can say on the subject because I find myself repeating the same things over and over and I don't get any indication that folks want to hear what is being written. The excuses will continue that it is BECAUSE manner in which I am writing that people are unable to hear WHAT I am saying. I don't agree with this either. People hear what they want to hear and I get no indication that people want to hear these issues or act on them.As far as corroboration among a group of people I don't know that I would put a lot of stock in using that arguement. I recently had quite an experience over on BULLSHIDO where the folks were quite sure they had my number regarding traditonal MA. By your arguement I needed to more closely approximate THEIR POV. So if I was over on BULLSHIDO I would be in compliance with their values and over here I would be in compliance with the values on THIS Net, yes? Tell me you aren't making an arguement for "situation ethics". This would all be very accurate except for one small matter------ we are not talking about the issue I raised---- only the MANNER in which that issue was expressed. I submitt--- in the clearest possible terms--- that regardless of how I expressed myself the answer ultimately would STILL have been "not interested; not our problem". Nuff said?

Best Wishes,

Bruce


Edited by glad2bhere (08/01/05 01:45 AM)

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#171687 - 08/01/05 01:42 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
Nuff said.

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#171688 - 08/01/05 03:20 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Quote:

What is NOT being talked about is WHAT I said.




Your claim is that we as moderators and members alike are not taking responsibility for the information we present and whom we present it to, that we are possibly educating "terrorists" with information such as "sentry elimination" with discussions such as CQC. You then claim that we are basically refusing to discuss your accusations. Yet i have posed a question you have yet to address.

Quote:

I would like you provide an instance where one of the moderators blatantly fed "dangerous" information to a new practitioner.




Your quick to throw out accusations but you have yet to provide any evidence of these claims or specific points to discuss. Simple quotes will be fine.

How exactly is it YOU are going to lecture ME on antiterrorism? How am I not giving due regard for the times we live in? Just because you received a few "suspicious" phone calls prior to 9/11 you think you have cornered the market on this issue? That some how walking on eggshells and not discussing certain methods of training will somehow make it "more difficult" for "them" to gain this information? How exactly does this tie into this question?

Quote:

hey, what's a wooden tanto used for? Like, what's the art called? what's it like?




This is the question that sparked your rant about leaking info to terrorist right?

Quote:

Originally posted by glad2bhere:No, "dude", I Don't. I don't know you...... and I don't know what you are going to do with the information.

What I DO know is that before the 9-11 disaster in NY the Internet sites such as Dochang Digest and E-Budo had various inquiries regarding how one could learn to use a box-cutter as a weapon. I, myself, had a number of calls from people who were interested not in learning Hapkido but in specific aspects of hand-to-hand combat both emptyhand and using small knives as executed in confined spaces. I'm not saying there was any correlation although in truth I note that since that event I have received no more such calls.

Now since this Net is read in the UK, so how about if somebody sends me instructions on how to fabricate high-explosive anti-personnel packages that might be used in confined spaces and easily transportable. What do you think? I mean, you don't know who "I" am do you? And do you really know what I want the information for?

I mean, and why stop there? How about a dialogue on introducing microbes to city water supplies, or degrading national food sources.

Get a clue, dunce. You are on an internationally viewed Net which anyone with a keyboard can read, save and exploit. If you are too dumb or too lazy to do a simple GOOGLE on the subject when all it takes are some keystrokes can you really blame me for being suspicious? Think about the times we are in and why don't you check yourself?





You also like to talk of other people's agenda here when it seems to be you who has an agenda. Did you purposefully come here with the intention of using the members as lab mice or was it something you came up with later? Perhaps it's just your way of making excuses for your behavior.

Quote:

I recently had quite an experience over on BULLSHIDO where the folks were quite sure they had my number regarding traditonal MA. By your arguement I needed to more closely approximate THEIR POV. So if I was over on BULLSHIDO I would be in compliance with their values and over here I would be in compliance with the values on THIS Net, yes?




I guess we aren't the only ones to see through your BS.

Quote:

I submitt--- in the clearest possible terms--- that regardless of how I expressed myself the answer ultimately would STILL have been "not interested; not our problem".




Again, show me where a moderator of this forum has expressed any intention to offer potentially dangerous information to an inexperienced practitioner. Take a look through the forum and you will see not only them moderators but also several of the other members instructing them that they need to seek qualified instruction. Go ahead and count how many threads were locked or faded out because someone asked what the best pressure points to use in a fight were or what the fastest way to KO a person was. Your argument holds no weight for the simple fact that all you have done is rant and point fingers. You have yet to show any evidence of your claims.

I can also assure you that admin doesn't simply pick people to ban. If a member is sent on vacation it's because they broke the forum rules and not because of any conspiracy theory.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#171689 - 08/01/05 04:40 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
kickcatcher Offline
Member

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 200
Loc: UK
Reading the advice given on forums like this is more likely to confuse and defocus a would be sword maniac than give them sensible assistance. To kill someone with a knife or sword takes zero academic research. I say we encourage sword maniacs to come here and ask the experts on the best ways to deflect incoming blows, it might save a few lives, lol.
_________________________
Judokakakakaka!!!!!!!

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#171690 - 08/01/05 07:03 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: kickcatcher]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Amen!

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#171691 - 08/01/05 09:43 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: laf7773]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
OK, Lane. Lets do it YOUR way.

Here are three posts that to me represent the attitude that makes distributing information possible.

“……….Honestly, based on the parts of your post that I understand (not your fault) I don't really see a need to have an active censorship policy. I would venture to say that a large percentage of people here who actually have the knowledge of these things also have the ability to discern whether or not they should share this information. Many of the "deadly" moves posted on here are by kids who watch too much anime and have downloaded the anarchist's cookbook from Kazaa………..”

Joel


“…….There is no clear and present danger that any kid will go and do soething that we have advised anymore than a kid will buy a tech9 and shoot up his school.
The net provides information about anything to anyone and however scary that is, I think it is the most important invention since the wheel, it wopuld be a shame to have to fly all the way to the US in order to exchange opinions about MAs. Kids learn those techniques in school anyway, it doesnt matter what we tell them.
Obviousy bad advice is bad advice, but that can come from us or it can come from a McDojo, or it can come from a strasnger on the street. All this political correctness and legality and should we do this, and is it right of us to disclose potentially lethal info on a public forum; it does my head in…….”

And

“……And I dont think that it should be OUR responsibility to shield kids of this information. If someone is talking about killing someone, the thread would be deleted and stopped and the person banned (thats why we have moderators) but I dont think that information and bad advice is something that is a characteristic of this forum in particular, or something that can be avoided in society in general…….”

MAGr


OK? Now, look at my post in REALISTIC SWORD thread regarding the Kukri used by the Nepalese Gurhkas (Posted 7-30-05).

a,) An identified weapon of lethal intent.

b.) A training modality

c.) A resource for securing the piece

d.) Encouragement on how one might circumvent the usual restrictions.


Its not bad enough that some guy is writing in and effectively wants to know what the best sword to use in an urban setting is. But I purposely injected a questionable post and you folks don't seem to mind. And you know what, Lane. I already know what you are going to write back. "Hey! One post!" (BTW: I could have used the "Throws designed for killing" thread (See: the later posts from Kito-ryu) but I am satisfied that I have made my point.)

Know what, Lane? Stick it in your ear. I did my part. After a thread like this, take a wild guess how willing I am to pitch-in if I have any other recommendations or suggestions.

Have a nice life.


Edited by glad2bhere (08/01/05 10:00 AM)

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#171692 - 08/01/05 10:46 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
kickcatcher Offline
Member

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 200
Loc: UK
Quote:

Its not bad enough that some guy is writing in and effectively wants to know what the best sword to use in an urban setting is.


Just direct the kid to the martialist. He'll go in looking for a blade and come out with a DEADLY FLASHLIGHT (LOL). If these nuts really had the potential to do what they dream about, they would go to their local hardware shop... Dim Mak or Brick... which is more effective? lol.
_________________________
Judokakakakaka!!!!!!!

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#171693 - 08/01/05 11:30 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by G2BH -

Quote:

Know what, Lane? Stick it in your ear.




Ah....there it is. Interesting counseling technique, Bruce.

Quote:

I did my part. After a thread like this, take a wild guess how willing I am to pitch-in if I have any other recommendations or suggestions.




We should be so lucky.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#171694 - 08/01/05 11:48 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
Quote:

Have a nice life.



Take care.
It was nice owning...er I mean, knowing you.

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#171695 - 08/01/05 12:25 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: MattJ]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
I'm not in counseling position here-- not that you probably couldn't use it. At least the people I work with are willing to admit that they can improve, do something better and be marginally responsible. Can't imagine how nice it must be to sit back and cherry-pick the straightlines without giving anything back--- and have that be the sum total of anything you have to offer.
Not much to recommend you without your chorus of cheerleaders to mutually assure each other that your way is right and its everyone else that needs to change.

Nottaproblem. What goes around comes around and even a self-satisfied arrogance such as yours is not big enough to stop that. However, you have my sympathies.


Edited by glad2bhere (08/01/05 12:28 PM)

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#171696 - 08/01/05 12:46 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
kickcatcher Offline
Member

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 200
Loc: UK
Quote:

Please help me. I want to buy weapons grade plutonium. Where can I get it? Thanks in advance,
Next school killer.



Well, www.notbloodylikely.org is a good bet. Ask in the sword forum, they'd love to help.
_________________________
Judokakakakaka!!!!!!!

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#171697 - 08/01/05 01:15 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: kickcatcher]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
and then there was this one one month later, from the same fictitious person. It gets 84 replies with 56 links in the same sword arts forum:
Quote:

Topic: Looking for a good place...
Sorry, not really MA related but - anyone have a link with a detailed map of the San Andreas Fault lines?
Thanks for your help.




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#171698 - 08/01/05 01:22 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
RazorFoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 2064
Loc: Seated at the computer, DUH
G2BH, I have not said anything until now because I am not one to perpetuate a bad situation. I feel that if you let it go long enough, it will burn itself out but I do not think this will. I try not to pass judgment on anyone but when they start to do it to others while ignoring their own flaws, then it becomes a problem.

Quote:

I'm not in counseling position here-- not that you probably couldn't use it. At least the people I work with are willing to admit that they can improve, do something better and be marginally responsible.



By whose standards and opinions? You seem to feel that if people do not agree with you, they are wrong.

Quote:

Not much to recommend you without your chorus of cheerleaders to mutually assure each other that your way is right and its everyone else that needs to change.




Only difference is you do not seem to need a chorus. You cheer yourself into believing that no one else's opinion matters but yours.

Quote:

Nottaproblem. What goes around comes around and even a self-satisfied arrogance such as yours is not big enough to stop that.


So are you our punishment?

Quote:

However, you have my sympathies.




We have been nothing but sympathetic towards you during all your rants, tyrades, and, as you have deemed it, "self-satisfied arrogance".

As Butterfly stated, you have a lot to offer but you taint it with your smug, arrogant, condescending attitude towards your fellow forum members. That gets old after a while.

I actually find a lot of your posts interesting and informative. I have learned several new things and have used them to better my knowledge of certain areas but I can not ignore your tone in some of your posts.


Edited by RazorFoot (08/01/05 01:58 PM)
_________________________
"The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be."

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#171699 - 08/01/05 03:42 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: RazorFoot]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
Dear Razorfoot:

There is no way I can give you sufficient perspective on this except to say that what is being pushed around here is a self-satisfied attitude that has gone on for a number of years. I don't know how long its gone on at the particular NET because honestly I have not been here that long but the hallmarks are unmistakeable.

To borrow your thought, yes I DO have a lot to give and there was a time when I would have waited (almost after the manner you described) until the toxic behaviors burned themselves out. The fact is, Razorfoot, that the toxic behaviors will NEVER burn themselves out and my sitting by quietly in my old age and not saying anything only makes it easier for people to continue old behaviors.

Nobody died and left me "Gawd", and this is not a solicitation for the job. What this is. is one person standing up and saying "stop--- you are making a mistake."

Now the responses are no different here as on any other Net.

1.) "Who dafuk are you?
2.) "What gives you the right to talk like that?"
3.) " I don't like your attitude"
4.) "You don't have the knowledge/experience/vitae/education rank/status/office/position etc etc etc to speak to us like that!"
5.) "Thats more of the same old-fashion B***S***".
6.) "You aren't gonna last long here."
7.) "Keep it up and you'll get banned."

And the list goes on.

The fact is that in the end what I say and the way I say it is no more toxic, outlandish, insulting, condescending are any other quality you want to insert.

What you have here are folks who want to see the world a particular way and take exception to anyone, for any reason they can mount, so as to not tolerate an alternate point of view. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce


Edited by glad2bhere (08/01/05 03:48 PM)

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#171700 - 08/01/05 03:49 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Quote:

Here are three posts that to me represent the attitude that makes distributing information possible.




I'm pretty sure the question i posted to you, a couple of times, was about moderator giving dangerous information not about their attitude about it. Here it is again in case you missed it.

Quote:

I would like you provide an instance where one of the moderators blatantly fed "dangerous" information to a new practitioner.




The problem is you are choosing to ignore the many times a thread was closed due to content and not because of behavior or in the case that the thread wasn't closed the members and moderators went to great lengths to encourage finding an instructor. There as even been members who have complained about the lack of information given and the response to seek legitimate instruction.

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/15759295/an/0/page/1#15759295

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/15758375/an/0/page/1#15758375

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/15758134/an/0/page/1#15758134

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/15768391/an/0/page/0#15768391

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/15761026/an/0/page/0#15761026

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/15757216/an/0/page/2#15757216

You can also take a look at the number of "self teaching" threads in the sword forum where others and myself have gone to great lengths to discourage dangerous acts such as practicing with stainless steel.

Quote:

OK? Now, look at my post in REALISTIC SWORD thread regarding the Kukri used by the Nepalese Gurhkas (Posted 7-30-05).




Quote:

The post in question:Still not sure why noone is talking about the Kukris that are used by the Nepalese Gurkhas. These are sound enough to take off a limb and formidible thrusting weapons. I understand that the Gurkhas themselves often train by smearing the handles with animal blood so that the in consistent sometimes sticky/sometimes slippery handling requires them to develop assured eye-hand coordination. There are a number of sources currently that are selling both the larger and the smaller weapon and they can be had for a pretty cheap price. Learning to throw them is actually rather simple given the odd shape. Since they are currently on the market as historical oddities I would go so far as to say that even a minor might be able to purchase one without too many questions asked. Of course you will probably need to GOOGLE for the source most convenient to people here. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce





So here are the dangerous points you made in that post.

Quote:

a,) An identified weapon of lethal intent.




You identified a kukri. Not exactly a secret weapon and no more dangerous than any other bladed weapon in any particular person hands.

Quote:

b.) A training modality




You suggested using blood on the handle to improve hand eye coordination. Is this any worse than telling someone to train alive in order to increase the effectiveness of their techniques?

Quote:

c.) A resource for securing the piece




Telling someone they can "google" something is hardly providing them with a resource.

Quote:

d.) Encouragement on how one might circumvent the usual restrictions.




This will also tie in with point C. Telling someone they might be able to get one if they are under aged isn't going to help them very much. Now on the other hand if you had given a specific web site that you KNOW would sell this weapon to a minor and told them so i would have removed it. In your own words..
Quote:

But I purposely injected a questionable post and you folks don't seem to mind.



So after all of your ranting about people safety, terrorist and providing new practitioners with dangerous information you put out information that YOU feel is dangerous to prove a point? What about all the little kiddies who may be reading? Where are your morals now? Killing a man is wrong but is killing a man in order to see if the cop watching you will act right? Get off you high horse.

Now let's take a look at the "quotes" you made of others and see how they compare.

Quote:

“……….Honestly, based on the parts of your post that I understand (not your fault) I don't really see a need to have an active censorship policy. I would venture to say that a large percentage of people here who actually have the knowledge of these things also have the ability to discern whether or not they should share this information. Many of the "deadly" moves posted on here are by kids who watch too much anime and have downloaded the anarchist's cookbook from Kazaa………..

Joel




Since you seem to have misunderstood this statement i will try to clarify it for you even though i can't pretend to speak for Joel. What he is saying is there is little need for the moderators to censor posts for content because the majority of the members here do it them selves. On the occasions we do get members posting "deadly moves" they are generally dealt with or discouraged.

Quote:

“…….There is no clear and present danger that any kid will go and do soething that we have advised anymore than a kid will buy a tech9 and shoot up his school.
The net provides information about anything to anyone and however scary that is, I think it is the most important invention since the wheel, it wopuld be a shame to have to fly all the way to the US in order to exchange opinions about MAs. Kids learn those techniques in school anyway, it doesnt matter what we tell them.
Obviousy bad advice is bad advice, but that can come from us or it can come from a McDojo, or it can come from a strasnger on the street. All this political correctness and legality and should we do this, and is it right of us to disclose potentially lethal info on a public forum; it does my head in…….”




It's convenient you only post the portion you feel backs your position. What about the first paragraph in that post?
Quote:

This forum is not a website where kids ask adults questions and adults decide what to write and what not to write. Its a discussion forum where people with similar interests get together to discuss MAs. If we were all to fly to a specified location and talk about it would that make it better? Its the same thing, we are discussing and debating MAs not advising kids. If kids want to participate in the conversation then that should be fine by us. It is the parents' business whether they should be allowed to participate in the forums. If I tell you what is the best way to kill someone, then a gun is the best way to kill someone, doesnt mean you are going to go and do it. There are no legal ramifications for telling people about techniques or how to use a knife, or which is the best knife. We are talking about honing martial ability which cannot happen without training. So if I tell a kid that the throat is a sensitive area, that does not mean that they can go away and apply that to their friends.




Let's keep things in context shall we?

Quote:

“……And I dont think that it should be OUR responsibility to shield kids of this information. If someone is talking about killing someone, the thread would be deleted and stopped and the person banned (thats why we have moderators) but I dont think that information and bad advice is something that is a characteristic of this forum in particular, or something that can be avoided in society in general…….

MAGr




Your little examples here do less to support your position than you would like to believe.

Quote:

I already know what you are going to write back. "Hey! One post!" (BTW: I could have used the "Throws designed for killing" thread (See: the later posts from Kito-ryu) but I am satisfied that I have made my point.)




Here is the post i believe you are talking about.
Quote:

I am sorry guys but i am with tomh777 on this one.. I train and have trained in Kito Ryu jiu jitsu for close to 8 years and throws with the intention to kill is what the traditional art was all about. Also tomh is spot on with the way throws have been changed to make it possible to use them in free practise and is 100% about how the slight change of an angle, a different grip etc have come into these throws to make them possible for free practise or Randori. I myself do not know many throws which are designed to kill, but my sensei knows alot and has shown myself and the higher ranks of our class some of these throws that really make you shiver.

my 2 cents..thanks jim




Where is this member giving any dangerous information? They have identified an art, kito ryu, that they say uses deadly throws . How is knowing this dangerous? I don't see any descriptions of how to do these throws.

Quote:

Know what, Lane? Stick it in your ear.




Someone getting their feelings hurt? I don't see how. Unlike you i've made no personal attacks. All i've done is hold YOU accountable for YOUR actions and behavior. Now how about you deal with the issues i've raised about your behavior? After all we are discussing your claims that we are intentionally providing new practitioners, and oh yes the terrorist, with "dangerous information". Unfortunately you have yet to solidly prove your point, which leaves it to nothing more than a misguided opinion.

I'm going to ask you again and i'm going to make it very plain and clear this time.

Quote:

hey, what's a wooden tanto used for? Like, what's the art called? what's it like?




How is this question deserving of the response you gave it? You use the excuse of providing possible terrorist with dangerous information but if that is truly what you believe then why respond at all? The simple fact is your actions were rude and uncalled for and you were looking for an out in order to explain your actions.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#171701 - 08/01/05 04:13 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: laf7773]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
".....How is this question deserving of the response you gave it? You use the excuse of providing possible terrorist with dangerous information but if that is truly what you believe then why respond at all? The simple fact is your actions were rude and uncalled for and you were looking for an out in order to explain your actions....."


Oh ANOTHER simple question. What, you keep asking questions. I answer and then you turn to another question and I answer that one and I turn to another.This last was answered previosly. Get off yer lazy butt and look up my response.

And don't make like you aren't getting all defensive and spinning and taking things in a particular light as well. The fact is that you were challenged and you didn't like it. Started out nice enough but when I didn't except the usual pat answers things started getting rougher.

You keep characterizing me in a number of disparaging ways but you still have not said I was wrong--- only that you take exception to "how" I communicated. The fact that you have HAD to close threads tells me that you are aware of the problem. So the last 6 pages are nothing but damage control and PR work to make sure that

a.) I am a single voice of a malcontent

b.) There is no problem

c.) If there is a problem Lane is on top of it.

And I just don't believe any of that crap you are shoveling. Now you can keep going over the same lines time and again like one of these times suddenly I will realize that you were right all along. Ain't gonna happen.

BTW: For future reference. The correct response is

"thanks for the in-put. We have not looked into that in quite a while and probably need to check it out. Give me about a week to run through things and I want to get back to you.
Shall we keep this thread opn to see if other people have thioughts or do you want me to PM you?"


Edited by glad2bhere (08/01/05 04:17 PM)

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#171702 - 08/01/05 04:39 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
You have NOT answered the question. You are side stepping. I never said there wasn't an issue of people looking for or offering information that shouldn't be posted here but it is FAR from out of control. You would like others to believe that we as moderators are simply turning a blind eye to it and doing nothing. This isn't the case as i have shown with the threads above. You want everyone to believe that YOU are here to be our savior by pointing out a "deficit" that is only a large issue in YOUR eyes. The staff and members alike go to great lengths to keep such information from being put out. We HAVE taken responsibility for the content of this forum and you are not the first person to see this issue. The reason you got blown off is because you aren't bringing anything to light. Additionally you never "challenged" me in any regard, as it is obvious you are lacking the understanding of what is going on, proven by the quotes you made.

The only characterizations i have made of you are in regards to your behavior. Yes i take exception to your responses and the way you interact with other members because it's against forum policy and it's uncalled for but has had nothing to do with your "challenge" of me or your feeble personal attacks. You can hide behind your little façade and claim you are acting in the best interest of the members but the fact is you feel you are better than them and have no problem with trying to belittle them for your own amusement. Your response to iamdadude had NOTHING to do with leaking info to possible terrorist or giving dangerous information to new practitioners. It was done because you are a rude individual, nothing more.

The bottom line is there will always be people on an open forum who are looking for the easy way, the most deadly art/moves, the easiest KO, how to win a school fight and yes sentry elimination. Nothing you or i do will change that. What the staff here and the majority of the members are doing is trying to educate these individuals and point them in a direction where they can learn in the proper environment. You are not the first person to see this issue and your not going to be the last. So stop waiving your banner and claiming to hold the Holy Grail, you’re way behind the power curve on this one. You really need to expand the bubble of your reality and see the things you accuse others of are the same things you are guilty of. The fact that you failed to address any specific points i made shows you are questioning yourself.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#171703 - 08/01/05 04:54 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
sigh....
Quote:

You keep characterizing me in a number of disparaging ways but you still have not said I was wrong--- only that you take exception to "how" I communicated.



Lie. Joel AND Lane both told you you were wrong in the beginning of the thread. and Lane gave you advice: "Plain and simple, if you don't agree with a topic report it."
If everyone follows that advice, then the original concern you brought up on topic is addressed. can't you see that?

I want you to answer a few question Bruce...to add to my 'case study' of you:
1. Do you realize someone owns this website? a 'website' and all of it's contents basically comes down to a hard-drive which is on a server somewhere.
A. It's not yours.
B. It not mine or the moderators.
C. we are guests. and this site is charity to fellow Art enthusiasts.

2. Do you appreciate (as ironically, your username suggests) being able to log on and read/contribute/etc for free without once ever being asked your credit card?

3. Being a guest, have you read and understand the forum rules? There is a chain of command for complaints - you have a problem with moderators? talk to Mr V. you have a problem with Mr V.? e-mail Mr Caile. if you have a problem with Mr Caile then you are SOL and need to find another hobby.

I am very close to making a formal complaint about you Bruce. stop flamming moderators NOW or have your ip banned. - your choice. (don't think I can't get it done).

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#171704 - 08/01/05 04:58 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Oy....I feel soiled for continuing this, but...

Quote by G2BH -

Quote:

You keep characterizing me in a number of disparaging ways but you still have not said I was wrong--- only that you take exception to "how" I communicated.




Talk about spinning! Your interpretation is somewhat off-base. I don't think any of the mods disagree with the premise of resposible management of info. That is not an issue. You seem to be disagreeing about what level of management is necessary, and you appear to be alone in your POV. Your so-called "tests" are simply insulting and contradictory, as Laf pointed out.

And the issue of communication is also valid - that is our job as mods to maintain an atmosphere that is not full of pointless aggression, insults, slander, etc - even if the person feels they are doing us some kind of service.

Quote:

The fact that you have HAD to close threads tells me that you are aware of the problem.




Well now, which is it? If we are already aware of the problem, why do you feel that you must be haranguing us about how we are not aware of it? Seems quite contradictory to me.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#171705 - 08/01/05 05:01 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: MattJ]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
Fine. Since there is no moderator for this forum, I will report it. I find it offensive that 'argueing over argueing' could possibly go on for 6 pages.

Like the kids say...get a room.

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#171706 - 08/03/05 09:40 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: harlan]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
This thread has gone off topic.
Lets deal with the question od censorship and not personal agendas and attacks.

The internet has opened the information floodgates. There is nothing you can do or SHOULD do to stop it. The internet is an INVALUABLE resource for anyone and EVERYONE, yes including terrorists.

The trafficing of terrorists is controlled by the intelligence services which (OMG) scan the net also for sources. Just because terrorists might buy swiss army knives that does not mean that all the knife shops should be closed.

Just because they may find one post usefull for their end does not mean we should censor the forum. Do you see what I am saying? Just because they may use a really fast car to get away from the police does not mean that there shouldnt be any ferraris or advanced driving courses.

It is unfortunate that people use information and resources for evil intent but the way to stop it is not to ban the subject. This is not only in reference to the forus or even to the internet. IT IS A FACT OF LIFE! BAD PEOPLE WILL USE TOOLS FOR THEIR EVIL INTENT! The way to stop that is not to start censoring and banning things left right and centre it is about educating people and dealing with the sources like the recruiters not the bloody forums! Gimme a break.

Your opinion on this matter is hardly thought out properly and almost laughable. I m sorry if you have to revise your opinion because you are mistaken (I realise people dont like to change their opinion even in light of a better arguement).

A tire iron is dangerous if used with criminal intent. Maybe we should reinvent the wheel

Edit: Also if you want to campaign about censorship on the net then I suggest you get your priorities straight. I doubt that this forum is a breeding ground for potential terrorists and mass murderes, more so than other sites/forums in any case. Why dont you go campaign for those rather than berating us with your preachings.
And do you really think that someone who wanted to learn how to use a weapon for terrorism would actually come to receive training in a forum? HAHAHA. In case you havent heard, some of the 9/11 attackers were trained by the CIA.

Anyway, the reason we advise people to find proper instruction in a lot of the cases is that so they dont hurt themselves by learning from some dvd. Again, I doubt that if I described ANY technique that the person could actually use it. Most of the threads (questions and responses) are by people who have already learned their techniques but want to discuss it with other people who also know of the techniques.

Answer this question, if an outsider comes to this forum and reads all the posts that have ever been posted, do you think that they would be a better fighter? If yes then you are WRONG. If no then your point is moot.
"in the biu gee form of wing chun the arching elbow is on of the techniques that is the most devastating of the wing chun arsenal, it archs from the top in an arching motion and lands as a spike cuttting across the face" The above technique can seriously danage someone, but I would like to see you use it and it working with the information given above.
Quest:can the butterfly sword form be applied with kitchen knives?
Answ: Yesm, you can use a kitchen knife as a tonfa and then wing it with your thumb to ustilise cutting motions.

The above was an actual question and an actual answer. How can me telling him that you can use a knife as tonfa give someone who doesnt know the butterfly knives any information on how to effectively use a kitchen knife? Can you go away now and apply what I advised above? Would it make any difference in the real world, since a knife that is a foot long is illegal anyway?


Edited by MAGr (08/03/05 10:06 AM)

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#171707 - 08/03/05 10:25 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: MAGr]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
I teach Hapkido.

When I note a situation where there is potential for that skill set to be abused I take responsibility for what I teach and modify my behavior in deference to a good outcome.



By comparison, this Net is a resource or a clearinghouse for information.

When I note a situation where there is potential for that information to be abused I anticipate that moderators will take responsibility for what is communicated and modify the resource in deference to a good outcome.

I believed this when this thread started. I still believe this now. Furthermore I don't believe that moderators have been on the job in this area or I would not have written the original post. I still believe that they are not on the job (at least not entirely) and that the larger portion of this thread is nothing more that misdirection so as not to discuss the original point. I find this LAST point particularly disturbing as it seems to take very little for moderators to close a thread which THEY believe has strayed from the original theme.

You are certainly free to continue this thread for whatever reason you choose to. In all honesty I am just simply no longer interested in communicating with you about this issue.

As with Lane, I encourage you to "have a nice life".

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#171708 - 08/03/05 12:03 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
There is no moderator for this forum, genius, that is why it has not been closed.

Quote:

I don't believe that moderators have been on the job in this area



I deleted a thread yesterday that was basically a (poorly written) how-to on iron palm training. There have been other threads of the same ilk deleted. Wonder why you haven't seen them? BECAUSE THEY WERE DELETED BEFORE ANYBODY READ OR REPLIED TO THEM.

Quote:

I still believe that they are not on the job (at least not entirely)



That's because what you think is a job that should be done is not a part of our job description, therefore it is invalid to say we are not doing our job.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#171709 - 08/03/05 01:04 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Quote:

You are certainly free to continue this thread for whatever reason you choose to. In all honesty I am just simply no longer interested in communicating with you about this issue.




Could this be because we are now addressing your "issue" and showing proof to back our position you no longer have any ground to stand on? You have yet to site any instances that could prove you right. I on the other hand have shown you just a handful of threads where the moderators here have been doing exactly what you suggest we are not.

The simply truth of the matter is you wouldn't agree with any level of involvement by the moderators and would go out of your way to find fault no matter what we do. You call for us to impose stiffer "censorship" but you stomp your feet and act like a child when one corrects you. You insist we must take responsibility for the posts here but insist the moderators here don't have the right to censor you. You "demand" that moderators change the way they deal with you? Who are you?

Don't bow out now. You wanted to discuss the manner in which this forum is run and the level of involvement from the staff then lets discuss it. Don't run off when you are being proven wrong.

Yes here is another question, one that was asked a while ago. If you have such a low opinion of this forum and the members here why are you still here?
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#171710 - 08/03/05 06:11 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: laf7773]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
No Thanks, Lane. I have had quite enough of the discussion and quite enough of you. Your "whats a matter--- you don't want to talk about this?" ploy was predictable. You have not talked about the issue you just cited (and my original theme) for five pages and now you make like its what you wanted to talk about all the way along? Is that what you would tell Caile? ("Gee, Mr. Caile, I was really trying to give his concerns a fair hearing but he just all-of-sudden went off in a huff. Honest; I really, really tried!!")

Only nice thing I can say about an exchange with someone like you is that I don't have to do it again.

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#171711 - 08/03/05 10:15 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
RangerG Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1026
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylvania
Being a Moderator is much like being a Quality Assurance Inspector. No matter how you handle a problem, somone is going to be unhappy with the answer they get. We volunteer for the job, giving up personal time in an attempt to keep threads within the site guidelines and to promote the MA's.

In the end, I would submit that if you don't like the content here, and are unhappy with how the site is moderated, I would invite you to move on to a MA site that meets your strict expectations. This 6 page dialoge is much like bashing one's head against a brick wall for all involved, and as such is not productive nor changing anyones mind.

Best wishes in your future endevors.
_________________________
"If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough."

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#171712 - 08/04/05 10:43 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
b_d_41501 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 67
Loc: US
I guess I'll just get in on the action as well and put it in the words that should have been used for the first response to your constant naggings...............YOU ARE AN IDIOT!!!!

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#171713 - 08/04/05 10:49 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: b_d_41501]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
b_d, that is completely unecessary. We are not here to insult others (although I did my share already).

You are new here, so let this be your first warning.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#171714 - 08/04/05 02:01 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: JoelM]
RazorFoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 2064
Loc: Seated at the computer, DUH
I am in agreement with Ranger G. If you have so much contempt and disgust for what is going on here, then why do you continue to bother with this forum? If there are so many individuals here that you feel do not have a clue, you may wish to join another forum where your "gifts" can be appreciaited to the extent you feel is deserved.

As I stated earlier, I prefer logic and reason to sarcasm and slander. Believing in such, logic would dictate that if you do not like where you are, there are two choices. Deal with it or move on. It is apparent to all that you are having great difficulty "dealing" with it. Might I suggest the other alternative? The third option you have created obviously will not work and should never have been considered. That would be attempting to make people look at things the way you do. What would make you think that anyone else has any less faith in their position than you have in yours. You may feel you are right but apparently their are quite a few people who do not agree. Just because you are in a minority does not make you incorrect, but it does not add strength to your position either. And whether your believe you are right or not, you can not force people to share your opinion, especially in they do not have faith in your credibility, position, or communication style.

Just something to think about,

Scottie
_________________________
"The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be."

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#171715 - 08/04/05 03:19 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: RazorFoot]
b_d_41501 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 67
Loc: US
Sorry guys, I won't do it anymore. lol. I prefer Sarcastic Logic to sarcasm and logic separately any day though. lol.

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