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#171652 - 07/26/05 02:48 PM Net responsibility
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
Dear Folks:

Since I am not exactly sure how to address or to whom I am using this venue in the hope that individuals who manage this site will have a chance to consider my suggestion.

I am writing to suggest that either the policy o fhti Net switch to the posting or disclosure of the actual names and locations of the contributors

Or---

A moritorium be declared on the disclosure of potentially dangerous information. As we cannot know for certain to whom we are writing let alone who may be in LM as our notes are posted, I submitt that we are unable to actually control the distribution and use of potentially dangerous information on this site. Into this category I would include the making and conceealment of small weapons, close quarters fighting utilizing lethal methods (IE "sentry elimination") and the indiscriminant distribution of literature pertaining to subjects such as these.

I do not pretend that chosing not to allow such information on this site will preclude the distribution. However responsible adults will already know how and where to find such materials and information and are able to take responsibility for their actions. Minors and individuals of less than healthy intent may also ultimately get ahold of these materials but at least it will not be with your complicity. Thoughts? Comments?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

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#171653 - 07/27/05 01:47 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Quote:

I am writing to suggest that either the policy o fhti Net switch to the posting or disclosure of the actual names and locations of the contributors



Could you clarify please? Seems like a typo but I still don't understand.

Quote:

A moritorium be declared on the disclosure of potentially dangerous information. As we cannot know for certain to whom we are writing let alone who may be in LM



What?
Quote:

as our notes are posted, I submitt that we are unable to actually control the distribution and use of potentially dangerous information on this site. Into this category I would include the making and conceealment of small weapons, close quarters fighting utilizing lethal methods (IE "sentry elimination") and the indiscriminant distribution of literature pertaining to subjects such as these.

I do not pretend that chosing not to allow such information on this site will preclude the distribution. However responsible adults will already know how and where to find such materials and information and are able to take responsibility for their actions. Minors and individuals of less than healthy intent may also ultimately get ahold of these materials but at least it will not be with your complicity. Thoughts? Comments?

Best Wishes,

Bruce




Honestly, based on the parts of your post that I understand (not your fault) I don't really see a need to have an active censorship policy. I would venture to say that a large percentage of people here who actually have the knowledge of these things also have the ability to discern whether or not they should share this information. Many of the "deadly" moves posted on here are by kids who watch too much anime and have downloaded the anarchist's cookbook from Kazaa.

Just my take on it
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#171654 - 07/27/05 09:26 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: JoelM]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
Dear Joel:
Sorry about the miscommunication the sentence was intended to read
“I am writing to suggest that the policy of this Net switch to the posting or disclosure of the actual names and locations of the contributors…..”
Or
“…… that a moratorium be declared on the disclosure of potentially dangerous information. As we cannot know for certain to whom we are writing let alone who may be in LM (“lurk mode”) .



What I am suggesting is not censorship as much as a responsible management of what information is distributed through this Net. There are, for instance, a great number of threads on people wanting to use swords in demonstration or wanting to know about cutting materials. This is very different from a person who wants information in how sword might be used if one found themselves in a streetfight. Currently we have an active thread in which a person wants to know where to look to find information on fighting with a dagger. What about discussions concerning the best choke to use? How about a discussion of the best way to break a persons’ arm?

I agree very strongly that the truly well-informed practitioner is in a place to regulate himself in the understanding and use of this information. However, it has become increasingly apparent to me that there are not a few kids on this Net and based on the responses I have seen they are not getting a whole lot of guidance regarding what they are about in the MA. It would help me to know that people who are watching over this Net are concerned with how information might be used and conduct themselves accordingly. Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

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#171655 - 07/27/05 09:51 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
This forum is not a website where kids ask adults questions and adults decide what to write and what not to write. Its a discussion forum where people with similar interests get together to discuss MAs. If we were all to fly to a specified location and talk about it would that make it better? Its the same thing, we are discussing and debating MAs not advising kids. If kids want to participate in the conversation then that should be fine by us. It is the parents' business whether they should be allowed to participate in the forums. If I tell you what is the best way to kill someone, then a gun is the best way to kill someone, doesnt mean you are going to go and do it. There are no legal ramifications for telling people about techniques or how to use a knife, or which is the best knife. We are talking about honing martial ability which cannot happen without training. So if I tell a kid that the throat is a sensitive area, that does not mean that they can go away and apply that to their friends.

There is no clear and present danger that any kid will go and do soething that we have advised anymore than a kid will buy a tech9 and shoot up his school.
The net provides information about anything to anyone and however scary that is, I think it is the most important invention since the wheel, it wopuld be a shame to have to fly all the way to the US in order to exchange opinions about MAs. Kids learn those techniques in school anyway, it doesnt matter what we tell them.
Obviousy bad advice is bad advice, but that can come from us or it can come from a McDojo, or it can come from a strasnger on the street. All this political correctness and legality and should we do this, and is it right of us to disclose potentially lethal info on a public forum; it does my head in.

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#171656 - 07/27/05 10:01 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: MAGr]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
Dear MAGr:

I understand what you are saying, and just for clarities sake let me go a bit farther and say this is not about Political correctness. For me it is about stepping across that line where we stop dabbling in the realm of "martial theatre" and start actually giving out information that can injure.

Most of the people I am hearing on this Net are probably not going to do much more than dress-up and parade around in a dochang. They have their illusions about what they are really doing and there are always folks standing in the wings ready to charge for a test or collect tuition in support of these illusions. Thats fine. Harmless role-play.

Now, what happens if someone ISN'T role-playing. There is no teacher, or peer to help them keep their feet on the ground. And what if that person doesn't have a real good grip of reality to begin with? What if the person we are talking about isn't even signed in but just happens to kibbutz from OUTSIDE of the conversation?

I am NOT saying that the NET is inappropriate. What I am saying is that maybe folks need to think a bit deeper about whats being said and who may be listening. Thoughts?

If you are still having trouble understanding where I am coming from let me give you a thought.

How would you react if, say, I started a discussion on the sword forum entitled------

"Can a sword cut a cat/dog in two?"

Does this help you see my point?

Best Wishes,

Bruce


Edited by glad2bhere (07/27/05 10:08 AM)

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#171657 - 07/27/05 10:39 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Quote:

Most of the people I am hearing on this Net are probably not going to do much more than dress-up and parade around in a dochang. They have their illusions about what they are really doing and there are always folks standing in the wings ready to charge for a test or collect tuition in support of these illusions. Thats fine. Harmless role-play.



Personally I find that insulting to the vast majority of members in this forum, there is a much larger amount of non-role-playing people here than those who are roleplaying.

back on topic:
Quote:

Now, what happens if someone ISN'T role-playing. There is no teacher, or peer to help them keep their feet on the ground. And what if that person doesn't have a real good grip of reality to begin with? What if the person we are talking about isn't even signed in but just happens to kibbutz from OUTSIDE of the conversation?



Anoybody who wants to get the info will get it somewhere or find another way to harm people/places/things. I honestly see no reason to censor ourselves.

Quote:

What I am saying is that maybe folks need to think a bit deeper about whats being said and who may be listening. Thoughts?



No, they don't need to think about it any more than they already do.

Quote:

How would you react if, say, I started a discussion on the sword forum entitled------

"Can a sword cut a cat/dog in two?"




A ridiculous post like that would be flamed and then deleted.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#171658 - 07/27/05 10:49 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Quote:

I am writing to suggest that either the policy o fhti Net switch to the posting or disclosure of the actual names and locations of the contributors

Or---






You want to show our actual names and locations!!! H.E. double hockey sticks NO!

Quote:

A moritorium be declared on the disclosure of potentially dangerous information. As we cannot know for certain to whom we are writing let alone who may be in LM as our notes are posted, I submitt that we are unable to actually control the distribution and use of potentially dangerous information on this site. Into this category I would include the making and conceealment of small weapons, close quarters fighting utilizing lethal methods (IE "sentry elimination") and the indiscriminant distribution of literature pertaining to subjects such as these.





Like what kind of switchblade do I buy? I think that post was handled well as many others have been.
I am for not giving 'lethal' advice to minors and being responsible in your posts,but I think the forum handles these kinds of things well already.
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#171659 - 07/27/05 11:17 AM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
Quote:

And what if that person doesn't have a real good grip of reality to begin with?



Then I dont think it matters where they get their advice from they would still use it in a wrong way.

Quote:

What if the person we are talking about isn't even signed in but just happens to kibbutz from OUTSIDE of the conversation?



What if he buys a book? Do book stores regulate who is allowed and who is not allowed to buy books that give MA instructions on how to throw a knife properly?

Quote:

I am NOT saying that the NET is inappropriate. What I am saying is that maybe folks need to think a bit deeper about whats being said and who may be listening. Thoughts?



I dont care who is listening any more than I would care if I was having a coffe with a friend and someone was listening.

Quote:

How would you react if, say, I started a discussion on the sword forum entitled------

"Can a sword cut a cat/dog in two?"




What if he asked his friend this question?

I dont think you understand what I am saying. You are saying that this forum can be a source of potentially dangerous information. What I am saying is that the whole world is a source of potentially dangerous information, I dont think that the benefits of restricting discussions outweigh the costs of fostering interesting debates.
And I dont think that it should be OUR responsibility to shield kids of this information. If someone is talking about killing someone, the thread would be deleted and stopped and the person banned (thats why we have moderators) but I dont think that information and bad advice is something that is a characteristic of this forum in particular, or something that can be avoided in society in general.

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#171660 - 07/27/05 12:40 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: JoelM]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
Dear Joel:

Maybe its just me but the folks here seem to be inordinately easy to "insult".

I made an observation on the thread I mentioned and "my" post was "inappropriate". This seems to underscore the idea that what is "appropriate" has more to do with what is consistent with how you see the world coming together. For instance I just mentioned that I was NOT advocating censorship. That does not stop yet another person using that word to describe my effort.

And I never said that people could not find the same information other places. I am wondering why this net needs to contribute to that ease.

If I am understanding the jist of this response to my post it might be encapsulated as follows.

a.) You want to do what you want to do when you want to do it, because you want to do it.

b.) You object to having responsibilities pointed out to you

c.) You have you ideas of what constitutes authentic MA and your resent having people disagree with you.

d.) You harbor a special irritation for people who point up your illusions for what they are and would rather act out against such a person than rethink the possibility that a reassessment is in order.

Now--- if what I have written is anywhere NEAR correct I suggest that while it is fun to run a NEt like the "big people" do you need to wake up and understand that having a Net entails meeting certain responsibilities. Thats not because "I" say so, friends, thats just the way that it is. Like it or not. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

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#171661 - 07/27/05 01:23 PM Re: Net responsibility [Re: glad2bhere]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Quote:

Maybe its just me but the folks here seem to be inordinately easy to "insult".



Maybe you're just too good at insulting people.

Quote:

For instance I just mentioned that I was NOT advocating censorship. That does not stop yet another person using that word to describe my effort.



You want to limit the range of discussion of certain topics on this site, that's called censorship. Let's not play the semantics game.

a.) Basically, yes.

b.) Not at all, but what you are pointing out are not my responsibilities.

c.) I do have ideas and I do enjoy having them challenged, making me think and analyze. I resent know-it-alls coming in and telling me what's what with an air of so-called superiority and a severe lack of respect.

d.) I harbor a special irritation for those who are here for no other purpose than to spawn hate and animosity with their illusions of martial grandeur.

Quote:

Now--- if what I have written is anywhere NEAR correct



No, not really.

Quote:

I suggest that while it is fun to run a NEt like the "big people" do you need to wake up and understand that having a Net entails meeting certain responsibilities.



And those certain responsibilities have been pointed out to me and all of the moderators by the Administrators of this website. Nothing you have proposed has been included in that list of responsibilities, so I will not enforce anything like that.

Quote:

Thats not because "I" say so, friends, thats just the way that it is.



Another one of those unspoken/unwritten rules? Sorry, buddy, if it's not writen, then I have no obligation to follow it and no desire to.

Quote:

Like it or not. FWIW.



Don't like it because it's not a fact. INWA (It's Not Worth Anything).


I honestly do understand what you're advocating here, but I am 100% against having an stated policy of censorship/(whatever you want to call it) and I will take no part in doing that unless told to do so by the Administrators of this website.

Good Day.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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