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#170178 - 07/29/05 12:59 PM Re: Punch the air in shiko-dachi (horse stance) [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
WADO Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/23/04
Posts: 900
Loc: denver co usa
Karate is all about knees and ankles horse stance trains knees and ankles. There are many reasons for this type of training, first it teaches you to be comfortable with a low center of gravity which is crucial to karate training, many throws in karate use the horse stance, The toes in knees out is designed to break an opponents balance, even if you never use horse stance in a fight it is quicker to train symetrically so you can get by with fewer punches. It trains posture if you can keep your posture straight for 100 punches you can maintain proper posture throughout the motion of many techniques remember posture is important to karate. The pull back itself is not a loading move or chambering move it is designed to force the practitioner to use maxumum hip rotation, in horse stance puch the hips should move very sharply but only a very short distance it teaches a person to accelerate hips very carefully. The pull back is like a thorn used to remove another thorn, it is used to teach the hips once the hips know what to do you no longer need it and you can throw it away, but it is still effective training even for advanced practitioners to emphasize short sharp hip movement.

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#170179 - 07/29/05 06:45 PM Re: Punch the air in shiko-dachi (horse stance) [Re: deadlyartsmaster]
deadlyartsmaster Offline
Member

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 74
I am not biased. Advising members to punch in the air before a streetfight is plain silly. Get lost.


Edited by SANCHIN31 (07/29/05 07:15 PM)

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#170180 - 07/29/05 08:47 PM Re: Punch the air in shiko-dachi (horse stance) [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by Bushi_no_ki -

Quote:

Alot of punching from horse stance, is as stated, about the stamina and discipline, but horse stance also allows for you to isolate the upper body, and focus entirely on the technique of the punch.




Sorry, I disagree completely. The very fact the you are "isolating" the upper body means you are really not working any functional technique.

If you are not involving the legs, hips and back in your upper body strikes, you are simply doing an excercise similar to punching.

Boxers can throw tremendously powerful punches with very little arm movement, because they are involving the body in it's entirety. All strikes need to involve the entire body as a cohesive unit, and practice that does not do so is of very little value, IMHO. Heavy bag and focus pads, my friends. Air is for breathing!
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#170181 - 07/29/05 11:57 PM Re: Punch the air in shiko-dachi (horse stance) [Re: MattJ]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
You can use a focus pad for punching out of horse stance. We do it all the time Matt. I used to be amazed by the amount of power I could generate just from my arms. Adding body weight to the punch just makes it all the more powerful.

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#170182 - 07/30/05 12:40 AM Re: Punch the air in shiko-dachi (horse stance) [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
BigRod Offline
Does it all

Registered: 02/10/05
Posts: 736
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Shouldn't you be training your punches from the stance they're actually going to be used from? The time spent practicing punches in a horse stance (which you will never do in a fight) could used to fine tune your actual delivery mechanism of your punches.

And as for using a horse a stance to increase leg strength in some way, well, there are more modern and effective ways of doing that, even without weights.

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#170183 - 07/30/05 09:25 AM Re: Punch the air in shiko-dachi (horse stance) [Re: BigRod]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Thanks, BigRod. That was exactly what I was trying to say. Why practice in a manner that is substantially different from the actual application?
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#170184 - 07/30/05 11:47 AM Re: Punch the air in shiko-dachi (horse stance) [Re: MattJ]
gojumaster Offline
Member

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 46
MattJ,

Do you practice any lower-body stretching and/or strengthening exercises? I would imagine you do.

My comment is just that if you are, then why not do something, anything useful with your arms while you do so.

Maybe you're stretching / strenghtening your arms with the same drill, but if not, maybe you could be practicing blocks, strikes, etc.

Best Regards,

Russ

Quote:

Thanks, BigRod. That was exactly what I was trying to say. Why practice in a manner that is substantially different from the actual application?


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#170185 - 07/30/05 03:47 PM Re: Punch the air in shiko-dachi (horse stance) [Re: gojumaster]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
My opinion is that it teaches discipline but also that it is a VERY good teaching aid for teaching beginners. You can clearly see their technique and correct it when in this stance. I think of it as a teaching aid.

And I do believe you are wrong about not using this in a streetfight. This stance provides VERY good stability and power-base for punching. However, you would not stand in the stance punching, stances are transitory. Like leaves in the wind, we change direction and flow with the motion of our body; dropping a stance here and there where they can amplify the power of our body's movement. You don't stop in a stance, chamber and then punch. Drop into the stance for the instant you punch and add the momentum of your current movement into the stance and the punch then move out of the stance in one flowing movement. The stance shouldn't exist for more than a moment, the blink of an eye. If you stand still, you give your opponent the advantage. Rigidness of mind or body can be the end of you.

Obsession with stances is no good, stances are tools or guidelines, not the rule of law. Control stances, don't let stances control you.


Edited by Leo_E_49 (07/30/05 03:50 PM)
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#170186 - 07/31/05 10:02 PM Re: Punch the air in shiko-dachi (horse stance) [Re: MattJ]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Good question, and I don't really have an answer I can form. I guess isolating the upper body in practice once in a while just boosts your ego a little, by showing you how much power you can generate with just half your body. I will say this, I do like to isolate my punching and train proper focus. I have ADHD, and it's really hard to meditate sometimes, so doing something like this seems to help during the harder times.

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#170187 - 07/19/07 11:10 AM Re: Punch the air in shiko-dachi (horse stance) [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Does your class practice this? (Punching the air in horse stance)
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Votes accepted starting: 07/19/07 12:00 PM
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