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#170168 - 07/22/05 10:09 PM Punch the air in shiko-dachi (horse stance)
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Of what or any value do you find in doing this? I know that most karate schools do this in one way or another.
For me I think it instills discipline and stamina/strength,but has little self-defense value.
I prefer to drill the students and myself from various other fighting stances,sanchin for one.
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#170169 - 07/22/05 11:29 PM Re: Punch the air in shiko-dachi (horse stance) [Re: SANCHIN31]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Sanchin,

In the style I practice, you would never practice reverse punches in shiko-dachi or kiba-dachi. That said, I see no problem with people actually doing this when their style encourages it.

The reason we don't do this for reverse punches or jab right cross combos, is that our torso's and hips have to be in the technique...and these stances effectively stop this movement.

If the mechanics or practices of another style dictate that you do these punches in this stance, go for it. This may promote other techniques or capabilities that I am unaware of or are not implied in our style.

Now having said that, I will note we do practice shita-zuki (upper cut punch) from a kiba-achi, since torso and arm relaxzation (thus a centered trunk) and the use of the quadriceps are mandatory in the technique as we perform it.

Also, we would effectively use kiba-dachi and shiko-dachi in defensive techniques that would include punches (but not reverse punches) and unbalancing in order to fell the opponent and use the knee placement of these stances as effective counter techniques to the opponent's backward fall....sort of like the opponent's head falling on an anvil (the knee in these stances is very stable).

Warmest regards,

-B

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#170170 - 07/23/05 12:08 AM Re: Punch the air in shiko-dachi (horse stance) [Re: butterfly]
kenposan Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/23/01
Posts: 633
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
A lot of it has to do with chambering, not so much punching. Victor wrote a good article about it on this site.
_________________________
The angry man will defeat himself in battle, as well as in life. -Samurai maxim

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#170171 - 07/23/05 12:47 AM Re: Punch the air in shiko-dachi (horse stance) [Re: SANCHIN31]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
leg strengthening while learning an alternate way of generating power. My appologies if I don't say anything you don't already know...

how do you generate power while keeping the shoulders and hips straight? if you twist the hips and/or shoulders then that would be a telegraph, right? sometimes if you are in an appropriate position for such an attack, a little trade off of telegraph for power is worth it.
thats one way.
There is another type of hip power generation...it's not the familiar rotational hip power like we'd do for reverse punch. This alternate type of power feels like a wave starting at your hips and peaking at the end of your fist. to an observer, they don't see a wave movement even when looking to the side...it's just how the opposing tension in your muscles perceive your movement. (the muscles involved are mostly buttocks, lower ab, stomach)

This is hard to describe, and I'm still trying to get the hang of it. In slow motion, try exaggurated movement at first:
pull your hips in without rounding your back (ie tighten your butt).
while pushing your hip (actually, hara) toward your rear leg you are using that motion to start a wave that is one ripple. right before your fist gets about 75% extended, you reverse your hip (hara) forward to the starting position...this sudden reversing gives you your kimi at the end of the wave.
exaggurated at first, the goal is to be able to do it without noticable body whipping. If you are arching or rounding your back at any point, you are doing it wrong and it will led to back pain/problems.

back up to natural fighting stance...
Now...combine that forward power generation with proper rotational body mechanics. practice it for a few months/years and there will be a dramatic power difference in your technique. you can apply it to blocks, kicks, punches, etc...get the fundamentals of the body mech. and it's just a matter of time to figure each technique out on a case by case.

so yes, punching the air in shiko dachi is a useful drill. It adds to other principals, or at the very least, good for leg strengthening. IMO.
-Ed

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#170172 - 07/23/05 01:02 AM Re: Punch the air in shiko-dachi (horse stance) [Re: Kintama]
bo-ken Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 1228
Loc: beaver falls, PA, beaver
I agree with Kintama it is a great way to generate power. I like to use it as a teaching aid I can see everyone punching at once.

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#170173 - 07/23/05 08:04 PM Re: Punch the air in shiko-dachi (horse stance) [Re: SANCHIN31]
Crash Offline
Buckle up!

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 627
Loc: Ontario, Canada
SANCHIN31, usually my classes start with a quick warm up and then we do single, double and triple punches in kiba-dachi. My sensi says (as you did) that this is obviously not a self defense technique, but rather a way of conditioning, he will say The punching is just a distraction from your legs, he says the main focus of the excercise is to train your stance. And often once we get to triple punches half the class will have risen up to having their legs straight, sensi will say "get those stances down there! your only cheating yourselves".
_________________________
Even though you only have two arms you can still block with your forearms.

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#170174 - 07/27/05 01:28 PM Re: Punch the air in shiko-dachi (horse stance) [Re: SANCHIN31]
Deltaforce69 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 81
Quote:

Of what or any value do you find in doing this? I know that most karate schools do this in one way or another.
For me I think it instills discipline and stamina/strength,but has little self-defense value.
I prefer to drill the students and myself from various
other fighting stances,sanchin for one.




Shiko dachi(sumo stance)in specific style of okinawan karate is widely used. The shorter version is used to train mobility and generating hip twisting (develop close range power)

Gambatte


Edited by Deltaforce69 (07/27/05 01:29 PM)

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#170175 - 07/27/05 01:30 PM Re: Punch the air in shiko-dachi (horse stance) [Re: Crash]
gojumaster Offline
Member

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 46
In my opinion, this is a great lesson that should carry over to nearly all aspects of training...

If you are coordinated enough to walk and chew gum at the same time (move your hands and feet simultaneously), then you should never be doing a drill that involves only the hands OR the feet. If you do, then you're just wasting a training opportunity.

Just to be clear, what you may do with your hands or feet may be related to self-defense, stretching, or strengthening and the lower-body may be simply stretching or strengthening while the upper-body may be practicing practical fighting drills / techniques.

Best Regards,

Russ

Quote:

SANCHIN31, usually my classes start with a quick warm up and then we do single, double and triple punches in kiba-dachi. My sensi says (as you did) that this is obviously not a self defense technique, but rather a way of conditioning, he will say The punching is just a distraction from your legs, he says the main focus of the excercise is to train your stance. And often once we get to triple punches half the class will have risen up to having their legs straight, sensi will say "get those stances down there! your only cheating yourselves".



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#170176 - 07/27/05 09:35 PM Re: Punch the air in shiko-dachi (horse stance) [Re: gojumaster]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Alot of punching from horse stance, is as stated, about the stamina and discipline, but horse stance also allows for you to isolate the upper body, and focus entirely on the technique of the punch.

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#170177 - 07/28/05 07:59 PM Re: Punch the air in shiko-dachi (horse stance) [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
deadlyartsmaster Offline
Member

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 74
Do not troll in this forum!


Edited by SANCHIN31 (07/28/05 08:46 PM)

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