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#169609 - 07/21/05 07:05 AM Victory without fighting
Intrepidinv1 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/05
Posts: 308
Loc: NC, USA
Okay since I've made the wrong impression on some of you about my philosophy on fighting I've decided to tell this story.

When I was in the Air Force many years ago I walking to the mess hall. I was dressed up a little (civilian clothes). I was slender then around 160 lbs. A guy is walking by and I waved and smiled at him (trying to be friendly.) I guess he took it as a weakness in me and came over to provoke a fight. He said some fight provoking words to me about my manhood, etc. I shifted my weight and changed my stance (bladed) but I did not raise my hands up or look aggressive. I calmly reassured him that his impression of my manhood was incorrect. He looked me over and seemed to lose his confidence. He said, "let's forget this ever happened" At which time I said, "sure man no problem." It's kind of funny because I was just being nice and he thought that I was someone he could take out his frustations on but when it appeared that I was ready and willing to fight he changed his mind and walked off. Funny.

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#169610 - 07/21/05 12:23 PM Re: Victory without fighting [Re: Intrepidinv1]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
I1,

I applaud you for this...but there is still something of the ego in this that is somewhat problematic, maybe just to me. But first, let me say that I am a dude who likes "war" stories as much as the next guy when I hear people talking about their experiencs, I am an apt listener.

On the other hand, I have had similar situations happen a number of times..and still, that the allowance that the other guy backed down is somehow a victory for you is still a little awkard for me.... but I also understand it.

Let me give you this as a comparative story that has no violence connected to it...but the best thing about it is that I experienced only happiness that the encounter went no where . Though, you have to understand that in an earlier incarnation of myself I might have been much more eager to test mine...or someone else's mettle.

I picked my wife up from the hospital two years ago and was driving very slowly due to her just recovering from surgery and being in the hospital for 3 days. I am driving down some back streets to save some time to get home but as I drive down one narrowed section, a car is trying to pull out of a somewhat blocked intersection and I give a couple of honks so that he is aware of our car coming through....other parked cars are blocking his view. I have the right away and he has to stop...but he still comes out half way until he sees us and hears my horn.

After this I see he is in the lane next to me cursing and calling me punk and signaling to me to pull over. I smile and say no....not this time.

Usually this kind of attitude would burn me up and make me think yeah, this guy deserves a pummeling. But what if I get pummelled? What of my wife? If this was a ganster...what of his buddies who would look for me even if I am the winner of this small, stupid fight? What of the legal issues? I would have been the one to allow the fight to happen since I would have been the one to pull over, knowing what would be happening soon. What of a weapon?

I have had so much crap like that happen to me in the past... and then your temper flies and all you consider is violence....and it burns you up for a couple of days.

Maybe it was because I was happy my wife was back and it was a nice day outside...but, I actually have to say I was proud of myself in retrospect, not for just walking away....but not caring that I walked away....since the alternatives could have been much worse no matter who won the fight. I smiled at the dude and drove home...happy!

If that guy wants to go to his pals and say he scared the crap out of me for honking at him...and I backed down....more power to him. I didn't and don't care....and am happy I had come to that conclusion.

Just not worth the testosterone.

-B

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#169611 - 07/21/05 08:58 PM Re: Victory without fighting [Re: Intrepidinv1]
Christie Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 872
Loc: Waterloo, ON
oh but u didnt walk away

........


u drove away

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#169612 - 07/21/05 09:12 PM Re: Victory without fighting [Re: butterfly]
Intrepidinv1 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/05
Posts: 308
Loc: NC, USA
There is a quote out there and maybe some of you guys can help me on this but it goes something like this; "To win a 1000 battles is not the highest skill but to defeat your enemy without fighting this is the highest skill."

Now honestly I really don't see that much of a difference in our stories. We both were confronted and we both did not try to escalate the situation. I'm not sure where you draw the distinction, as Christie said you didn't walk away you drove away.

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#169613 - 07/21/05 11:38 PM Re: Victory without fighting [Re: Intrepidinv1]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
I apologize if I wrankled a nerve, it was not my intent. It is just that I see a little of me in former years in your story and understand what you are writing.

The written expression of language, by the way, leaves much to be desired and so has inumerable problems with what inflection and face to face conversation would do to understanding...say, over a beer.

In any case, perhaps I misread the story, but I will say all that ends well is well. The thing that I took away, however, was the impression that though this did not escalate into a physical confrontation, you still took some pride in the overcoming of this individual, if not in the physical sense, it was in the pschological.

Sometimes this might be necessary if things proved hostile. My point, is that I was not attempting to overcome the individual, just side step the situation. I took no pride in dominance or making someone back down, just recognized the situation wasn't worth the potential problems...and so left.

This might be slight situational semantics, and you are right....but, how the other guy perceived me...weak or strong...was not a concern. Just the situation is all that preoccupied me.

Now, in certain encounters, how an idividual is perceived by a potential antagonist is something to take note of...but again, the perspective is to use the appearance as a tool to offput the other person, not necessarily relish the fact that someone else was put in their place. Sorry if this sounds a little convoluted. But like I said, honestly, I applaud you for not fighting.

-B

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#169614 - 07/22/05 12:09 AM Re: Victory without fighting [Re: Intrepidinv1]
Diga Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 209
Loc: Hoodsport, Washington
Good for you all.
I am one that prides myself in being able to - not only end a fight situation with my words and body expressions but most of the time the agressor winds up offering his services when it is all over. Sometimes I don't even try to get this kind of responce - I think it is partly automatic for me to see how they got whatever wrong impression they had and turn it into a joke or whatever it takes to neutralise their additude.
Something that really helped me to wilfully work toward this end with a bad situation was when I took Ki Aikido.
I had already done about 15 years of Goju and Shotokan which gave me confidence in a tight situation and they could probably see that I was more excited than scared of their aggressiveness but in Aikido they taught me how to ENTER a situation.
Here is the sequense....Stop....Do nothing....PUT YOURSELF IN THEIR PLACE....and ask yourself what is a human being.
Adding this to my martial arts has helped to understand just about anybody's point of view.

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#169615 - 07/25/05 11:47 AM Re: Victory without Knowing [Re: Intrepidinv1]
aikikiai Offline
Member

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 61
One of the oddest things I ever experienced was when I'd had maybe two years of aikido training or less. I was in university, walking home from somewhere, crossing a large parking lot behind some stores and bars about a block from my apartment.

All the way across the parking lot, I noticed another guy walking the direction from which I had come. He seemed to be going a way that wouldn't bring him near at all, but as we both crossed the lot, his path drew nearer and nearer mine until, near the middle of the parking lot, we were passing pretty close.

I didn't pay any attention to this at all because there was nothing threatening in the other guy's posture or way of walking, but just as we were passing, he suddenly turned toward me as if to jump on me.

But subconsciously, because of all the reflex training we had done, my body turned toward him with my arms still by my sides but in position to catch both his arms if he actually came toward me.

And in that same instant, he just turned back the way he was going and I did too, and didn't look back.

It was weird. It lasted an eighth of a second. I wonder now how many people that guy actually jumped on? But he didn't jump on me that night and what I did to stop him wasn't even my choice.

I like Lao Tzu's saying, "No fight, no blame."

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#169616 - 07/25/05 01:31 PM Re: Victory without fighting [Re: Intrepidinv1]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Quote:

Okay since I've made the wrong impression on some of you about my philosophy on fighting I've decided to tell this story.

When I was in the Air Force many years ago I walking to the mess hall. I was dressed up a little (civilian clothes). I was slender then around 160 lbs. A guy is walking by and I waved and smiled at him (trying to be friendly.) I guess he took it as a weakness in me and came over to provoke a fight. He said some fight provoking words to me about my manhood, etc. I shifted my weight and changed my stance (bladed) but I did not raise my hands up or look aggressive. I calmly reassured him that his impression of my manhood was incorrect. He looked me over and seemed to lose his confidence. He said, "let's forget this ever happened" At which time I said, "sure man no problem." It's kind of funny because I was just being nice and he thought that I was someone he could take out his frustations on but when it appeared that I was ready and willing to fight he changed his mind and walked off. Funny.




Good on you, mate!
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#169617 - 07/25/05 02:25 PM Re: Victory without Knowing [Re: aikikiai]
Intrepidinv1 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/05
Posts: 308
Loc: NC, USA
A similar incident happened to me in front of a Barnes and Nobles book store. A guy approached me and asked for a dollar and I told him no in a nice way. He made some type of move that made me jump back and raise my hands in some kind of x type blocking motion. He too walked off. To this day I don't know exactly what happened but it sounds a lot like your situation. I have no doubt you PREVENTED an attack on your person. That has to come from the training you've done in the past. I believe you won without fighting. He did not want you to resist his actions you caused him to do an about face. Awesome story.

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#169618 - 07/25/05 09:01 PM Re: Victory without Knowing [Re: Intrepidinv1]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
I'm fairly sure that the majority of people on this forum have similar experiences. I've often wondered if there is something in the demeanor of MAs that tends to signal to potential attackers - stay clear! Is it in the way we carry ourselves, is there some look on the face or is it just animal intuition that tells people that here is not an easy meal?
Heres one of my examples;
There is a near riot going on in the street I used to live in. The 2 main protagonists are a woman who is a friend of my wife and a man with a big rep for fighting and was not averse to clouting women. Each of them has various friends engaged in side arguments. Not wanting to get involved my wife and I watch proceedings from our bedroom window. The guy approaches the woman and they are having a screaming match, faces inches from each other. The guy then headbutts the woman and spits at her. We then rush out to see if she is okay, the guy starts to walk back towards his house. So I'm standing there talking to the woman with my back to the guy and she shouts some abuse at him. He turns and starts walking aggressively back towards us. I looked over my shoulder at him and he stops, about 15 feet away, thinks better of it and goes home.
Heres the thing. I was in my pyjamas.lol I did not move or act aggressively in any way. I just looked. I didn't even turn around.
Now I guess he could have just remembered he'd left the bath running or something, but this sort of thing has tended to happen a lot since I've been involved with MA.

Oh, just in case you're interested, he got his come uppence later on when he took an almighty kicking from about 8 other neighbours.
I, of course, do not condone that, but...
I do believe in Karma.
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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#169619 - 07/25/05 09:24 PM Re: Victory without Knowing [Re: McSensei]
Intrepidinv1 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/05
Posts: 308
Loc: NC, USA
It sounds like you knew these people, maybe he was familiar with your martial arts training. Most guys that beat up on women don't like to fight men.

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#169620 - 08/19/05 11:04 AM Re: Victory without Knowing [Re: Intrepidinv1]
lucky1 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 4
It is interesting, you spend so much time training and just your stance and look make people turn an walk away from a fight. I have done that numerous times, but i am a big guy so taking a stance or giving a look usually stops most fights. When they know you are prepared, they are not willing to risk it. So practice and train hard, knowing your immediate reaction, preparation for battle can and does change an adversaries dispostion. I have had very few fights less than five in my life all defensive. How many fights do you think you might not have even had because the guys looking for one can just see it in your stance or the way you handle yourself. You dont realize it but the training you receive is perceived in your body language. Be happy you have put the time and effort in.

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#169621 - 08/22/05 05:13 AM Re: Victory without Knowing [Re: lucky1]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

It is interesting, you spend so much time training and just your stance and look make people turn an walk away from a fight. You dont realize it but the training you receive is perceived in your body language.





The Chinese has a word for it, they always do; its "huo chi" or fire-chi, which is also thier word for 'anger' When your mind is engaged in a 'combat mode' a certain 'chi' is projected out towards the target, which is almost felt, even if unconsciously, as a physical sensation; maybe science can one day say it is an energetic emanation of the sudden on rush of adrenaline?
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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