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#169217 - 07/20/05 03:05 PM Re: Applications for blocks in TKD forms [Re: SANCHIN31]
spectrum Offline
Member

Registered: 05/05/05
Posts: 134
Loc: montana
You guys have some great applications!

I have noticed the older I get, the softer more parry like my blocks become. Redirect and counter.

For me most blocks are just blocks

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#169218 - 07/20/05 04:55 PM Re: Applications for blocks in TKD forms [Re: SANCHIN31]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
I can agree and disagree with some of this ... but that is the nice thing about forums.

For the haymaker there are more then just the block/strike. You have to step into it with your body or at least limit the blow with the block. And by limiting the blow you are striking with your block and hard. A smaller person can do this as well.

All blocks you are taught to snap it out. If it is a knife hand block you snap the wrist thus providing force. When hitting another person's hand out of the way it does hurt especially when they are not expecting it. Now think in the way of a strike and do the same thing. I'm not just blocking this with a snap ... I'm snapping it and striking their hand away. Anybody of any size can do this.

As for blocking a kick, a kick is always going to win. If you can avoid then do so. If not then step in and block and punch. Thunder his leg with a block/strike and thunder him with your fist to his solar plex. Or if you can scoop his leg while thundering him into the solar plex and then kick his leg out from under him or just run him over.

Basically I'm saying if you are blocking don't think of it as a block otherwise all you are doing is sticking out an appendage. In stead throw it out like you mean it. Meet it head on with force. Snap it out ... strike it out ... and following it up with something.
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#169219 - 07/20/05 05:24 PM Re: Applications for blocks in TKD forms [Re: Dereck]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
You are still meeting force with force. I don't think that's a god idea for a young woman to do to a 220lb man,do you? If you are similar in size maybe,but you are still leveling the playing field instead of taking advantage.
IMO the block then punch scenarios are bad applications for the breakdown of any forms. Parrying and avoiding are much better suited for addressing punches and give you the advantage. If someone throws a punch and you block it forcefully what stops him from punching with the other hand? You would just be standing there blocking over and over.

Double shuto (knifehand block) - This move usually comes back first then both knifehands are thrust forward. One application for this is an attacker punches you follow the punch back while stepping forward and strike it toward you with the knife hands (two hands/arms against one) just up from the wrist and the middle forearm (that's the back motion) Then the double knifehands strike forward on the neck and or middle bicep. Attacker will be incapacitated from the blows. Trust me this is an effective appication for this 'block'.
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#169220 - 07/20/05 06:02 PM Re: Applications for blocks in TKD forms [Re: SANCHIN31]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
I think you are misunderstanding Dereck, Sanchin. When Dereck say he thinks of a block as a strike, then he means that you do not meet the attacking punch etc, head on, but instead hit it from the side. This way you are redirecting the power of the strike to the side of your body, therefore the force is not on your blocking tool. If you block with enough force then you should hurt the attacker's limb.

This in itself is not that useful, since the limb will still be usable, just bruised. When blocking kicks, the simple blocks, i.e. downward blocks and low blocks, IMO are last resorts, if you cannot evade fast enough. The best thing against kicks is evasion, or a grappling technique, things which are not implicitly a part of TKD, although I'm sure they form a part of many schools' syllabus.

I think the applications for blocks are endless; I also think that the basic method of blocking, taught at lower levels of tkd, is a bit restrictive. If I were to block, I would want to do so because it would put me in an advantageous position, not because I wanted to avoid a strike: that is what evading and guarding is for. I particularly like using blocks to change direction of a fight. An outward block with a step to the other side can open up the whole of an opponents body to counter-strikes. These "parries," where blocking is combined with movement can be very effective.

Overall though, I do not see much value in blocking as a method of escaping a strike.

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#169221 - 07/20/05 06:54 PM Re: Applications for blocks in TKD forms [Re: Supremor]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Supremor,
For the most part I agree and you've made a good assessment of blocks for self defense.

Quote:

Overall though, I do not see much value in blocking as a method of escaping a strike.




I don't either. That's the point I was trying to make without saying it. they are not for strikes,they are for grabs,chokes,etc.....grappling in forms.
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#169222 - 07/21/05 03:44 PM Re: Applications for blocks in TKD forms [Re: SANCHIN31]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

You are still meeting force with force. I don't think that's a god idea for a young woman to do to a 220lb man,do you? If you are similar in size maybe,but you are still leveling the playing field instead of taking advantage.




I disagree. I think you have to meet force with force when you are blocking as a strike or a flick/turn of the wrist at impact. You don't want to just throw your limb out their to block it. Their force will easily over power you and your limb will be the hurting limb more so then theirs.

For a smaller women I'd doubt she'd even block but if she had to she had better put something into it or find some other way to evade.

Quote:

IMO the block then punch scenarios are bad applications for the breakdown of any forms. Parrying and avoiding are much better suited for addressing punches and give you the advantage.




Agreed. I would rather avoid by blocking ... and I'm still striking hard when blocking ... and then move to the side with some sort of punch, kick, takedown, etc.

Quote:

If someone throws a punch and you block it forcefully what stops him from punching with the other hand? You would just be standing there blocking over and over.




You are assuming that once I block that I'm not countering immediately with something else. When I block his on coming punch (or what have you), I'm striking with my block ... moving if can to avoid ... and then countering immeidately whether it is a punch, elbow smash, etc. I'm not going to just let him take me over with blow after blow. He's going to know I'm there once he feels my block/strike and then my retaliation. Hopefully he'll be taken off guard and won't be able to follow up with another punch.

Quote:

Double shuto (knifehand block) - This move usually comes back first then both knifehands are thrust forward. One application for this is an attacker punches you follow the punch back while stepping forward and strike it toward you with the knife hands (two hands/arms against one) just up from the wrist and the middle forearm (that's the back motion) Then the double knifehands strike forward on the neck and or middle bicep. Attacker will be incapacitated from the blows. Trust me this is an effective appication for this 'block'.




Agreed and have been trained this as well. Our One-Step Sparring Self Defence techniques (think from our Hapkito training) incorporates this in One-Step two, five and seven. There are other techniques used in these forms (done with a partner) but this specific technique of double knife hands is used. And again when doing these I'm not just blocking I'm striking.
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"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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