Thanks, put it on the favorites. Good site.

There are some common errors in the history here.

First, the stories of JJ being a "battlefield" art are simply "tall tales", not unlike the ones of Unarmed Okinawan's defeating Samauri with bare hands and farm tools. The unarmed Samauri did not use jujutsu to disarm another Samauri to use his sword. Watch a Kendo match sometime and ask yourself how likely it was that that happened.

Samauri Jujutsu had ONE goal. To get your arm free to draw your sword. This is why most traditional Jujutsu schools have about a hundred or so escapes from wrist and body grabs.

Once swords were banned in Japan, and Jujutsu moved from a get your sword to a protect yourself system, then techniques came in for personal defense.

Kano's Judo came from his need to make a system that was progessive to learn, safe to study, and made better people. That always included effective self-defense training. The often seen quote that Kano created Judo to be a sport is simply not true, and we have Kano's own words to refute it.

GJJ or BJJ is a subset of traditonal kodokan judo, just like olympic or sport Judo is. Madea, who brought the techniques to Brazil was not a "jiujitsu" expert, but a Kodokan Judo black belt sent there to train people in judo. Same for Kimura who never was a world jiujitsu champion as there was never such a contest in his lifetime.

TODAY, and that is an important context, almost all judo programs are run as amature sport programs, with the focus on contest judo. Many BJJ schools are falling into the same trap.

The key to the differences is what is the focus of the training. However, if there are belts, and free prastice, and contest, it came from Judo not jujutsu.

Mark Tripp aka JudoCoach.

Hello, Mark Tripp, nice to see a familiar name.


Hope you don't get the idea I'm some kind of internet stalker following you from forum to forum...


LOL


RG.

I've read that Maeda practiced Kosen Judo, as opposed to Kodokan. Or perhaps he was a student of both? Given that the Gracies are ground experts, it's not totally unbelievable that Maeda came from the Kosen branch of Judo.

Wouldn't the differences in the rules tend to reinforce different techniques? I've never even seen a Kosen style match, but wouldn't it be logical that someone more familiar with competing in that forum to emphasize Newaza over Nagewaza?

Aw man, I made a fairly long post that seems to be missing.

Maybe I posted it in the wrong place.

Hmmm. Here's a snippet of something I found on the net. Let me know if you think this is accurate:

Quote:

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The Kodokan had established itself as a well-respected and undefeated school until 1900 when it entered a contest against Fusen Ryu Jiu-Jitsu. The Fusen Ryu differed from other Jiu-Jitsu school in Japan in that they dedicated almost all their training to "ne waza", or grappling techniques. At this point the Kodokan was skilled in striking and without companion in throwing skill, however they had very limited ability in ground grappling. In the contest the Fusen Ryu realized they could not outmatch the Kodokan on their feet so they employed a unique ploy. The Fusen Ryu fighters would pull the Kodokan fighters between their legs and fall to the ground, once on the ground they would apply a choke or joint lock and force the Kodokan fighters to submit (the modern day equivalent to "pulling guard"). The Kodokan were defeated by submission in all ten of their matches, it was the school's first defeat. Kano now realized that ne waza was of equal or greater importance to tachi waza (throwing techniques). Immediately following his school's defeat Kano persuaded Fusen Ryu's headmaster, Mataemon Tanabe, to instruct him on Fusen Ryu's techniques and principles. Kano also sought out a similar grappling intensive style Jikishin Ryu Jiu-Jitsu and began to incorporate its techniques into the Kodokan.

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The entire article can be found here: http://www.bjjfighter.com/History/

I guess if the above is true, then you are correct, because Kosen Judo didn't exist (I'm guessing here) until after Kano's Kodokan Judo had embraced the grappling techniques from Fusen Ryu Jiu-Jitsu.