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#168740 - 07/24/05 11:34 AM Re: Difference between Judo and Ju Jitsu [Re: kempo_jujitsu]
thegnome Offline
Member

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 49
But techniques using the gi do have alot of self defense applications. I live just outside of Ottawa and most of the year I am wearing at least a medium weight coat, and the standard clothing where I live includes a thick flannel shirt. I'm not saying that it would be the same in Florida or somewhere else down south but for much of North America at least part of the year is spent wearing someting warmer. Also alot of the gi chokes don't actually use the gi for the choke, but as a place to anchor your hand. The same can be done by getting a nice handful of cloth. To counter my own argument, I did once rip an opponents T-shirt trying for a cross choke from my back. Leaving me with a handful of Tshirt collar, no choke, and a rather p'd off college wrestler on top of me. So maybe you shouldn't listen to me after all.

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#168741 - 07/24/05 11:19 PM Re: Difference between Judo and Ju Jitsu [Re: kempo_jujitsu]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
Quote:

it is also important what you want to learn, sport or self defense? bjj, if you want self defense, make sure your instructor knows that, because in judo, and sport bjj, you rely on the gi to grab, choke etc...for many of the techniques. but they also have no gi grappling as well, which you can do with a gi on, just dont rely on it to use your techniques.




Well, although it is a good point to discuss what you want out of training with your coach, a good BJJ program should include a lot of gi to no-gi options.


Quote:

its also good to understand WHY japanese jujutsu does not contain as much groundfighting as bjj...simply because that is not where you want to be in a fight, in jjj you take down, and end it with a break or something, not roll around looking for a gi choke or armbar to tap out your opponent, you just break the arm and its over, you get back to your feet asap, because their may be more than one assailant.




Are you sure about that? The emphasis on the groundwork in BJJ is because that's where they believe that most fights end up, not neccesarily because they want to roll around looking for a submission.
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#168742 - 07/25/05 01:46 PM Re: Difference between Judo and Ju Jitsu [Re: kempo_jujitsu]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

... its also good to understand WHY japanese jujutsu does not contain as much groundfighting as bjj...simply because that is not where you want to be in a fight, in jjj you take down, and end it with a break or something, not roll around looking for a gi choke or armbar to tap out your opponent, you just break the arm and its over, you get back to your feet asap, because their may be more than one assailant.




You are stereotyping Japanese Jujitsu just like everybody else stereotypes Taekwondo, Karate, etc. We need to stop doing this and understand that different schools and different instructors teach differently.

Japanese Jujitsu is taught in our school and we spend a lot of time on the ground similar to BJJ looking for chokes, arm bars, different holds, etc. Yes we are also taught arm breaks as you said but the ground work is the most important part we learn so that we are comfortable on the bottom and the top.

Again it depends on the instructor so some schools may teach more to your description but others may teach more my description. We should not generalize all martial arts with the same name as being the same.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#168743 - 07/25/05 02:20 PM Re: Difference between Judo and Ju Jitsu [Re: Fletch1]
BigRod Offline
Does it all

Registered: 02/10/05
Posts: 736
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Quote:

Are you sure about that? The emphasis on the groundwork in BJJ is because that's where they believe that most fights end up, not neccesarily because they want to roll around looking for a submission.





Remember the classical JJ was WARFARE oriented. Rolling around on the ground in the midlle of hundreds or thousands of soldiers trying to kill you is NOT a good idea. More than likely you would have been stabbed while you attempt to armbar your opponent. Or trampled on by horses.

Now we think of self-defense primarily in terms of bar fights, or simple assualts by some kids dad who's upset because his son is riding the bench.


BJJ is primarily sport-oriented. The same for goes Judo.

JJ = warfare, BJJ/Judo = sport.

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#168744 - 07/25/05 02:31 PM Re: Difference between Judo and Ju Jitsu [Re: kempo_jujitsu]
Christie Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 872
Loc: Waterloo, ON
Quote:

it is also important what you want to learn, sport or self defense?




Mostly self defense but I do understand that bjj is sport oriented. I figure since I'm doing tkd theres little (not none) gain in cross training in another art that is mainly standing. In a fight I would do everything to say standing, but if it ever went to the ground, thats why I want to learn bjj

...

and to be able to take my dad down - he wrestled in highschool and at one point was #2 in Ontario, everytime I practice sparring with him he takes me to the ground because thats where he does best, I currently don't know what to do once down there

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#168745 - 07/26/05 11:08 AM Re: Difference between Judo and Ju Jitsu [Re: Christie]
thegnome Offline
Member

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 49
Since I'm a former Judoka that just started BJJ classes, here's what I've noticed so far as differences go. 1)Leg Locks 2) They let you go in stalemate positions ALOT longer than in Judo. 3) Leg Locks 4)When you are on the bottom in a hold you don't have to burn yourself out escaping as quickly since there isn't a time constraint (In Judo you have to escape or your opponent keeps moving up in scoring) 5) Leg Locks 6)Turtling up doesn't help as much since the ref isn't going to stop the action. 7)Very few Japaneese terms (Ha you thought I was going to say leg locks! Can you tell how I have lost my early sparring/randori matches?) 8)Alot of times you are not wearing a gi.

Good luck with your dad Christie. When playing against wrestlers I learned that no matter what I did I would always wind up on my back. I think they learn some kind of voodoo curse thing that keeps you pinned to the floor.

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#168746 - 07/26/05 11:09 AM Re: Difference between Judo and Ju Jitsu [Re: kempo_jujitsu]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I got my info from one of Helois personal interview that featured the Graicies origin he states that their training came from a Japanese Judo player that moved to Brazil, as for them training before Kano brought forth Judo from JJ. He did that in the 1880s, the Gracies training began in the 1900s.

So what is right? Where did you hear that? Was it from one of the Gracies?


Edited by Neko456 (07/26/05 11:10 AM)
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#168747 - 07/26/05 11:19 AM Re: Difference between Judo and Ju Jitsu [Re: thegnome]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
You don't find that the wrestlers seem to walk into chokes and arm locks, especially leg locks. I mean I have wrestler place their head into my gulloutine choke or help me triangle choke them trying to cradle me.

They think because they are on top their winning, I like the mount better then the guard also, but I don't push away straignt armed nor do I use my head to steer the body when I single leg, like they do thats asking for a choke or elbow/shoulder Kimaria'd.

They are very strong and have driving takedowns, I just don't fight them until we land, but I do work on the setup while in flight.
_________________________
DBAckerson

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#168748 - 07/27/05 02:25 PM Re: Difference between Judo and Ju Jitsu [Re: Neko456]
BigRod Offline
Does it all

Registered: 02/10/05
Posts: 736
Loc: Atlanta, GA
The problem with wrestlers is they learn quickly and in a few short weeks you've got your hands full.

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#168749 - 07/27/05 05:39 PM Re: Difference between Judo and Ju Jitsu [Re: BigRod]
Intrepidinv1 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/05
Posts: 308
Loc: NC, USA
What is the name of that web site where you found the animations of judo techniques? I like that, pretty neat and easy to understand.

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