How much value do you guys place in wrist control in the stand-up/clinch range?

I tend to concentrate more on overhooks/underhooks, setting up for takedowns from the clinch (as I am too chicken to shoot for single/doubles).

Something to concentrate on or not that big of a deal?

Matt,
Get the bigger, badder dogs to answer you on this one...but as a small guy, I will tell you that I have never had the occasion to use a fancy wrist technique standing...or be brought down by one.

In clinch range, when you lose your balance the opponent has you and from my experience, I have only given or received take downs by the hooks you described with a leveraged throw and/or by a sweep in conjuction with this.

In sparring, from my experience again, the hands are just to fast to get a hold of...so the distance is closed and the hooking you described takes place.

Once the clinch has been set up, it is just too easy and too fast to get to the ground...and in every case that I have had the occasion to experience, it was never a question of fine motor control techniques...but just as you described with hooks and body leverage...sometimes fascillitated by a sweep or unbalancing kick.

-B

The hands are definately to fast to get a hold of, but the elbow generally isn't too hard to grab and slide down to the wrist. Personally I don't hold much weight in wrist locks from a clinch either, but my sensei has put me down in seconds by grabbing the elbow and sliding down. Just an opinion though, this may not work on people of equal skill level.

Whoops! I guess I need to clarify. I was not refering to wrist locks or other small joint manipulation.

I was talking about the (wrestling) idea of wrist control. I have heard a lot of wrestlers say "Control the wrist, control the man" (or something like that). Many wrestling matches have the guys fighting to grab one another's wrists before attempting a shoot, etc.

What I am asking - is wrist control worth training in clinch work compared to over/underhooks? How much weight do the more experienced grapplers give to it?

Wrist control is the first stage of clinch. That's referred to as hand fighting. It's going to be something that you want to work as part of training but isn't really all that prevalent when strikes are allowed, in my opinion.

Training to hand fight isn't going to hurt your game though. Is that what you're referring to?

-John

Ohhhhh!

Nevermind....

To build upon what John said:

There are three lines of control that you work with clinch.

Wrist

Elbow

Shoulder/ Torso

Wrist is the first and is addressed mainly by hand fighting. Good Greco guys have amazing grip strength developed from constant hand fighting.

Elbows are second. When someone defends their wrist, they often expose their elbow. This opens up opportunities for armdrags.

Shoulders are last. As one counters each of these three, they generally lead you to move out or in towards another.

Thanks for the responses, guys.

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Training to hand fight isn't going to hurt your game though. Is that what you're referring to?

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Yes, it is.

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It's going to be something that you want to work as part of training but isn't really all that prevalent when strikes are allowed, in my opinion.

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Thanks, John. That is exactly what was I meant, although I did not ask it correctly. I had that impression myself, but my MMA experience is pretty limited compared to you guys, so I wanted to get some opinions from the guys that do it more.