Sirkickslot - Thats where we are different I also hold high rank in a trad art, but I admire and understand boxing. Its strength and weakness, every system have them. My brother was a pro boxer now a journeyman still thinking he can. Thats another story I've seen boxer destroy people on the street quickly, with clean boxing and street boxing. But I've also seen them taking out their element and beaten down. I've seen them quit, when a guy kick him in the knee. A boxer with a future not going to let you mess up his wheels/legs. Your brother probably is a good street fighter no doubt.

Glockmaster
We fight how we train, if they train it they will do it. I'm not saying you can't take boxing and build on it. But what I am saying you grab both arms of a boxer and he will go into a clinch or cover up. Perfect for being sweept off his feet.

I know how powerful, fast and tough they are but if they just come out of a boxing gym they are limited by the range they know of fighting. Most if they don't have a street back ground may let an opponent get back up. Or heiastant to continue to attack down opponent. Because they are comfortable standing.

Boxing is awesome sweet science. But its rules limits it effectiveness at all ranges is all I'm saying. In its range its a T-Rex, but out of its range its a Shark on dry land.

If you make it street orintiated its an awesome addition. But I stand by you fight how you train, unless you've trained/fought in other things.

I would still say that even boxing on its own, if trained properly, would be formidable in the street. Primarily because of the contact level and the usually high level of fitness and strength of many boxing students. I would also agree however that if anyone who is good at grappling or knee kicking is involved, a boxers chances decrease significantly.

I think (as most everyone should know by now), that it is the core skill that boxing training provides that is the important aspect. Forget the "sport" of boxing. You can use "dirty boxing" if you want to.

It's that "engine" or delivery system that is the essential element that I believe a person shouldn't be without. Hell, add your kicks, elbows, eye gouging, hairpulling or whatever else you guys like to do (fight like girls, lol). Just don't be without that ability to intuitively counter-punch or that ability to slip shots and be evasive while returning your own.


-John

Of course, something noone seems to have mentioned is that boxing is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Traditional Martial Arts in terms of conditioning - weights, endurance, power, the boxing world has that stuff down to an art. The TMA community could learn a lot by swallowing it's pride, forgetting the 10,000 pushups and standing in horse stance for 3 days, and start training with some boxers.

I’ll meet you half way on that. My father was a golden gloves boxer from back in the day, his nose covered a good bit of his face and he had pretty mangled ear. Tough cookies those men.

But I’ll say most modern TMA are way behind boxers in terms of conditioing but not all many train to fight full contact. Don’t forget the Kyokoshin and Ashihara guy’s they’re a hard-core bunch and train for the ring. I think most boxers would cringe at the 100-man kumite.

But what I am saying you grab both arms of a boxer and he will go into a clinch or cover up. Perfect for being sweept off his feet.

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I would like to see someone just grab a boxer's arms.

Here is my point.

Boxing with gloves is one of the best sports for conditioning agreed.

But my point is minus gloves ? and no hand conditioning?

Then its cringe time. Looking at some martial arts on some of the vidios I can understand about the constant assumptions.

I dont think all MA's train the same.They train for different reasons

If they want to train doing just kata and kumite then so be it

But some MA's are just as fit as most competing boxers are or should be.

Im not sure who some of these guy's are in with Bas rutten but one thing that occurs to me is it would seem that they havent got hand conditioning or seemingly any kind of punching skills

They havent got the confidence to punch baz rutten

Had they perhaps this fight would have been a different story.

My point is in a bare knuckle fight (as in some on this vidio) need bare knuckle tactics.

I presume these are palm heel strikes by baz rutten?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XVY5ciakysI&search=%20karate%20

Providing the boxer isnt hitting the opponent yeah

adaca wrote:

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Here is my point.

Boxing with gloves is one of the best sports for conditioning agreed.

But my point is minus gloves ?

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You still have the attributes developed through the practice. You still have great footwork and evasive movement. You still have great defense. Defense is more important than offense in my opinion.

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and no hand conditioning?

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What do you mean by hand conditioning? Like, Iron Palm training or something? That really only screws up the structure of the hand in the long run anyway. It’s easier just to not hit with the hands. People who train boxing can use their elbows and knees to hit with. One elbow is worth about 4 or 5 punches anyway.

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I dont thk all MA's train the same.They train for different reasons

If they want to train doing just kata and kumite then so be it

But some MA's are just as fit as most competing boxers are or should be.

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I don’t anyone is arguing that martial artists can’t be in shape. Its just that boxers are often in the gym for hours and hours. Anyone, regardless of style who is willing to put in the time can get into decent shape. It’s not limited to boxers of course. But, nearly ALL boxers are in great shape. The same can’t be said for martial artists.

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Im not sure who some of these guy's are in with Bas rutten but one thing that occurs to me is it would seem that they havent got hand conditioning or seemingly any kind of punching skills

They havent got the confidence to punch baz rutten

Had they perhaps this fight would have been a different story.

My point is in a bare knuckle fight (as in some on this vidio) need bare knuckle tactics.

I presume these are palm heel strikes by baz rutten?

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Oh, that’s pancrase. What you were watching were “worked” fights (fakes) used in the Pancrase Hybrid Wrestling fights. I wouldn’t pay a great deal of attention to those.


-John