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22740 Members
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#167446 - 02/18/06 08:04 PM
Re: Boxing for realistic self defense??
[Re: Chen Zen]
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Member
Registered: 10/27/05
Posts: 36
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Because it includes a lot of stuff like contact sparring and bag work, I imagine boxing would be pretty effective. Ditto through its simplicity – a boxer would be less likely to get ‘tongue-tied’ working out what to do in a fight. I do Hapkido, and my school incorporates a bit of kickboxing and Muay Thai for clinch and close-in striking work. I’d match a boxer against someone who had spent their time purely doing katas or non-contact point sparring any day.
Of course, to be really effective, you’d need to incorporate some grappling, kicking and groundfighting as well. Still, I’d say that boxing is a good place to start and I’d be very reluctant to go up against someone who had trained extensively in both kickboxing and wrestling.
As to the whole ground vs non-ground thing –
In my opinion, anyone who actually wants to take a street fight to the ground has rocks in their head. You’re liable to break something hitting the sidewalk, land on something sharp (eg – broken glass), you loose your visibility, you’ll have no chance if your opponent produces a knife, anyone can come along and take a free shot while you’re tied up, and you can no longer run away. That being said, it’s worth knowing how to fight on the ground in case you end up there. However, your first objective in any street groundfight should be regaining your feet IMHO.
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#167447 - 02/18/06 09:21 PM
Re: Boxing for realistic self defense??
[Re: Lord_Morningstar]
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Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific
Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15629
Loc: York PA. USA
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Cord, JKogas, and Lord Morningstar, all very good posts.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin
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#167448 - 02/18/06 09:31 PM
Re: Boxing for realistic self defense??
[Re: Lord_Morningstar]
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Professional Poster
Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
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I’d match a boxer against someone who had spent their time purely doing katas or non-contact point sparring any day.
Are there still any of those.
But I'd give a good boxer against even K-1 competitors or Kyoshin-kia fighter for 1 round. If they don't take his legs out.
But in the streets unless a boxer has other training hes at a disadvanged becauses their no rules. If cross trained you got a tough mister.
Like you I think its bad news to start out or want to fight on the grounds it just too risking. You can have self injury or injuries during the dance. Like you I believe ground work should be done if you got to and quickly get back to your feet. But I'll add if U feel out matched standing you might as well try something else. Safest thing is to throw/take down, but don't follow him to the ground. Stand and deliver.
_________________________
DBAckerson
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#167450 - 02/19/06 08:51 AM
Re: Boxing for realistic self defense??
[Re: Neko456]
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Member
Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 255
Loc: Lancaster, Pa
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Quote:
But in the streets unless a boxer has other training hes at a disadvanged becauses their no rules.
I disagree. Despite the fact that there are no rules. Most trained boxers will land several very fast, very strong blows long before a so called "street fighter" will even realize how much trouble he is in. Most people who fight in the streets are not very good fighters to start with. Dealing with a trained boxer is often more than a street punk can handle unless they start off with a weapon out and in play before the fight begins. Or if they manage to take the opponent to the ground first. Problem with this is, unless the guy is a trained grappler, he probably won't do much more than some lame attempt to plow into the guy and takle him, yet, lacking any strategy, may have ahard time keeping him there.
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#167451 - 02/19/06 09:57 AM
Re: Boxing for realistic self defense??
[Re: Glockmeister]
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Prolific
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
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Glockmeister wrote: Quote:
....Despite the fact that there are no rules. Most trained boxers will land several very fast, very strong blows long before a so called "street fighter" will even realize how much trouble he is in. Most people who fight in the streets are not very good fighters to start with.
That's an excellent point made here. Most of the so-called "street fighters" don't have one TENTH of the discipline, toughness, conditioning, timing and other attributes that a "worthy" boxer has.
Glockmeister wrote:
Quote:
Dealing with a trained boxer is often more than a street punk can handle unless they start off with a weapon out and in play before the fight begins. Or if they manage to take the opponent to the ground first. Problem with this is, unless the guy is a trained grappler, he probably won't do much more than some lame attempt to plow into the guy and takle him, yet, lacking any strategy, may have ahard time keeping him there.
More excellent points. Most people who aren't trained (good) grapplers aren't usually skilled at takedowns or, even if they DO manage to take someone down, usually can't KEEP them there for very long - unless of course there is a HUGE weight disparity. Fighting on the ground requires specilized training to be any good at it in most cases. That of course implies a certain amount of discipline as well.
There are always exceptions to the rule. But I am of the opinion that for the most part, people who engage in "street fighting" (and it isn't always in the street, especially here in the US) aren't extremely disciplined people to start with. This of course isn't to say that they aren't dangerous either. Anyone can carry a weapon, etc. But this isn't about that. It's about boxing being an effective method of self protection. That I believe in completely and would add that if you AREN'T using the delivery system of boxing, that you are short-changing yourselves in your training.
-John
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#167452 - 02/19/06 12:36 PM
Re: Boxing for realistic self defense??
[Re: bushi541]
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Stranger
Registered: 02/11/06
Posts: 2
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I think boxing is good for real self defense becauce you lear how to endure pain and develope quick hands and feet as far as tkd not being effective it is not the olympics fault but instead the fact that instead of people beaing maid to earn there rank in tkd it is often an instrouctor gives them there rank with out them having earned it and proper hard and intense training
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#167453 - 02/19/06 10:15 PM
Re: Boxing for realistic self defense??
[Re: Glockmeister]
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Professional Poster
Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
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Most trained boxers will land several very fast, very strong blows long before a so called "street fighter" will even realize how much trouble he is in.
Maybe, Maybe not its like us/me saying I/we can kick someone in balls everytime I/we fight. You can never say he will always be able to hit someone. Trained Odds are in his favor, if the guy don't know he's a boxer. If he knows he'd be crazy to trade blows. Beware of the diving tackle or body slam.
There are a lot different levels of street fighters just as there are boxers some are very skilled and some are just drunks or weekend warriors.
I define a streetfighter as anybody that has fought in the street, win or lose more then 5 r more times. Skilled or no skill or formal trained or street trained. On the Job or off the job.
_________________________
DBAckerson
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#167455 - 02/20/06 05:50 AM
Re: Boxing for realistic self defense??
[Re: Neko456]
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Prolific
Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
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Quote:
I define a streetfighter as anybody that has fought in the street, win or lose more then 5 r more times.
That would make practicaly everyone who has ever attended school a 'streetfighter'.
'Streetfighting' is merely the act of physical aggression with the intent to harm someone. Thats it. It can happen in a bar, in a street, in a home, in a jacuzzi, anywhere. All it takes is for a person to attack, and the victim to retaliate- one 'streetfight' on a plate. If an aggressor does this numerous times, they dont earn the title 'streetfighter', they earn the terms 'aggressive', 'violent', 'criminal' and 'stupid'. If the victim has this happen numerous times, then they earn either the term 'unlucky' or 'careless', or possibly both.
Lets not romanticise this issue by the bestowing of a title on violent idiots.
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