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#167476 - 06/16/06 05:14 PM Re: Boxing for realistic self defense?? [Re: Glockmeister]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Sirkickslot - Thats where we are different I also hold high rank in a trad art, but I admire and understand boxing. Its strength and weakness, every system have them. My brother was a pro boxer now a journeyman still thinking he can. Thats another story I've seen boxer destroy people on the street quickly, with clean boxing and street boxing. But I've also seen them taking out their element and beaten down. I've seen them quit, when a guy kick him in the knee. A boxer with a future not going to let you mess up his wheels/legs. Your brother probably is a good street fighter no doubt.

Glockmaster
We fight how we train, if they train it they will do it. I'm not saying you can't take boxing and build on it. But what I am saying you grab both arms of a boxer and he will go into a clinch or cover up. Perfect for being sweept off his feet.

I know how powerful, fast and tough they are but if they just come out of a boxing gym they are limited by the range they know of fighting. Most if they don't have a street back ground may let an opponent get back up. Or heiastant to continue to attack down opponent. Because they are comfortable standing.

Boxing is awesome sweet science. But its rules limits it effectiveness at all ranges is all I'm saying. In its range its a T-Rex, but out of its range its a Shark on dry land.

If you make it street orintiated its an awesome addition. But I stand by you fight how you train, unless you've trained/fought in other things.


Edited by Neko456 (06/16/06 05:21 PM)
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#167477 - 06/16/06 06:30 PM Re: Boxing for realistic self defense?? [Re: Neko456]
Leo_E_49 Offline
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Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
I would still say that even boxing on its own, if trained properly, would be formidable in the street. Primarily because of the contact level and the usually high level of fitness and strength of many boxing students. I would also agree however that if anyone who is good at grappling or knee kicking is involved, a boxers chances decrease significantly.


Edited by Leo_E_49 (06/16/06 06:31 PM)
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#167478 - 06/17/06 09:33 AM Re: Boxing for realistic self defense?? [Re: Leo_E_49]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
I think (as most everyone should know by now), that it is the core skill that boxing training provides that is the important aspect. Forget the "sport" of boxing. You can use "dirty boxing" if you want to.

It's that "engine" or delivery system that is the essential element that I believe a person shouldn't be without. Hell, add your kicks, elbows, eye gouging, hairpulling or whatever else you guys like to do (fight like girls, lol). Just don't be without that ability to intuitively counter-punch or that ability to slip shots and be evasive while returning your own.


-John

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#167479 - 06/17/06 04:55 PM Re: Boxing for realistic self defense?? [Re: JKogas]
TimBlack Offline
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Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 1403
Loc: UK, Brighton
Of course, something noone seems to have mentioned is that boxing is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Traditional Martial Arts in terms of conditioning - weights, endurance, power, the boxing world has that stuff down to an art. The TMA community could learn a lot by swallowing it's pride, forgetting the 10,000 pushups and standing in horse stance for 3 days, and start training with some boxers.
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#167480 - 06/17/06 09:29 PM Re: Boxing for realistic self defense?? [Re: TimBlack]
swseibukan Offline
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Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 196
Loc: Lakewood, Colorado
Iíll meet you half way on that. My father was a golden gloves boxer from back in the day, his nose covered a good bit of his face and he had pretty mangled ear. Tough cookies those men.

But Iíll say most modern TMA are way behind boxers in terms of conditioing but not all many train to fight full contact. Donít forget the Kyokoshin and Ashihara guyís theyíre a hard-core bunch and train for the ring. I think most boxers would cringe at the 100-man kumite.
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#167481 - 06/18/06 06:45 AM Re: Boxing for realistic self defense?? [Re: bushi541]
h2whoa Offline
Member

Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 427
Loc: Fiji
Quote:

Hey guys just wanted to know if you can still use boxing for realistisc self defense. My bro says its the only combat Olympic sport that can still be used for the street. I just wanted to know if any of you think it still is a good art to learn for some self defense skills??




Having boxed for a long time, and taken part in various other arts. I can say that for me, boxing is the first thing I turn to, it has its strengths...no one hits harder or has more effective and "clean" punches.

It does have a down side, boxers are terrible in the guard compared to ther arts...they try to catch punches on the gloves in the ring and that transfers onto the street.

Another weakness is that it doesnt utilise all ranges of fighting, like kicking range, grappling range etc. But if its a quick explosive show stooper you want, boxing will give you many hay makers...it then depends on you, and how well you know your art....if you are a good boxer and your instincts and the science behind it is sound, you shouldnt have a problem

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#167482 - 06/18/06 06:13 PM Re: Boxing for realistic self defense?? [Re: Neko456]
Glockmeister Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 255
Loc: Lancaster, Pa
But what I am saying you grab both arms of a boxer and he will go into a clinch or cover up. Perfect for being sweept off his feet.




I would like to see someone just grab a boxer's arms.

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#167483 - 06/19/06 11:26 AM Re: Boxing for realistic self defense?? [Re: TimBlack]
adaca Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 95
Here is my point.

Boxing with gloves is one of the best sports for conditioning agreed.

But my point is minus gloves ? and no hand conditioning?

Then its cringe time. Looking at some martial arts on some of the vidios I can understand about the constant assumptions.

I dont think all MA's train the same.They train for different reasons

If they want to train doing just kata and kumite then so be it

But some MA's are just as fit as most competing boxers are or should be.

Im not sure who some of these guy's are in with Bas rutten but one thing that occurs to me is it would seem that they havent got hand conditioning or seemingly any kind of punching skills

They havent got the confidence to punch baz rutten

Had they perhaps this fight would have been a different story.

My point is in a bare knuckle fight (as in some on this vidio) need bare knuckle tactics.

I presume these are palm heel strikes by baz rutten?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XVY5ciakysI&search=%20karate%20



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#167484 - 06/19/06 11:27 AM Re: Boxing for realistic self defense?? [Re: Glockmeister]
adaca Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 95
Providing the boxer isnt hitting the opponent yeah

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#167485 - 06/19/06 07:33 PM Re: Boxing for realistic self defense?? [Re: adaca]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
adaca wrote:
Quote:

Here is my point.

Boxing with gloves is one of the best sports for conditioning agreed.

But my point is minus gloves ?





You still have the attributes developed through the practice. You still have great footwork and evasive movement. You still have great defense. Defense is more important than offense in my opinion.


Quote:


and no hand conditioning?




What do you mean by hand conditioning? Like, Iron Palm training or something? That really only screws up the structure of the hand in the long run anyway. Itís easier just to not hit with the hands. People who train boxing can use their elbows and knees to hit with. One elbow is worth about 4 or 5 punches anyway.


Quote:

I dont thk all MA's train the same.They train for different reasons

If they want to train doing just kata and kumite then so be it

But some MA's are just as fit as most competing boxers are or should be.




I donít anyone is arguing that martial artists canít be in shape. Its just that boxers are often in the gym for hours and hours. Anyone, regardless of style who is willing to put in the time can get into decent shape. Itís not limited to boxers of course. But, nearly ALL boxers are in great shape. The same canít be said for martial artists.

Quote:


Im not sure who some of these guy's are in with Bas rutten but one thing that occurs to me is it would seem that they havent got hand conditioning or seemingly any kind of punching skills

They havent got the confidence to punch baz rutten

Had they perhaps this fight would have been a different story.

My point is in a bare knuckle fight (as in some on this vidio) need bare knuckle tactics.

I presume these are palm heel strikes by baz rutten?






Oh, thatís pancrase. What you were watching were ďworkedĒ fights (fakes) used in the Pancrase Hybrid Wrestling fights. I wouldnít pay a great deal of attention to those.


-John

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