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#167466 - 05/11/06 12:11 PM Re: Boxing for realistic self defense?? [Re: Chanters]
AikiGhost Offline
Member

Registered: 07/15/04
Posts: 85
Loc: UK
Quote:

Sorry to be pedantic but boxing isn't strictly a martial art, it's a sport.




Well as far as I know both boxing and wrestling are martial arts, and they certainly originated from western martial schools. I think its just an eastern bias in TMA that tries to classify boxing and wrestling as "Only Sports".

As to the main question, boxing is something anyone who is serious about self defence should have a good look into. Its very effective very quickly. After 6 months you should be able to give 90% of non boxers a run for their money in sparring. At the end of the day a few well placed punches gives you time to "Get the hell outta dodge".


Edited by AikiGhost (05/11/06 12:22 PM)
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#167467 - 05/11/06 12:18 PM Re: Boxing for realistic self defense?? [Re: c_maj7th]
AikiGhost Offline
Member

Registered: 07/15/04
Posts: 85
Loc: UK
Quote:

If you have to defend yourself against a high level boxer your in deep do-do. You better take it to the ground fast.
Box a wrestler,wrestle a boxer.




And if you meet a shootfighter youre really buggered
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#167468 - 06/16/06 07:32 AM Re: Boxing for realistic self defense?? [Re: Intrepidinv1]
adaca Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 95



Trad karate teaches(or it should teach) how to punch correctly, and the exercises to aid punching.

This is training is in part to limit as much as poss damage to the hands if done correctly and not to the extreme.

I wouldn’t say that boxing methods as opposed to trad methods are any better or make a person light years ahead(It depends how a person trains)

Just a point here how would you say that all trad karate methods and boxing methods differ?apart from the glove aspect?


I should imagine like most of my gloved boxer friends a person who only trains gloved might have caught some one or som ething with the wrong knuckle ?

Because maybe they rely to much on soft bags and gloves?
No press ups on the knuckles or hand conditioning such as on bags or maki wari?

Peoples heads can be use full defences against un skilled bare knuckle punchers.

I mean if in a scenario a person who only trained gloved were to be attacked and then to defend his or herself ? All of a sudden this person has one or two broken hands??

Hang on attacker can we stop?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2fBj1BUA3A&mode=suggested&search=

This isn’t a boxing vidio how ever might indicate how things can go wrong in any fight.
.


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#167469 - 06/16/06 07:44 AM Re: Boxing for realistic self defense?? [Re: Cord]
adaca Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 95




A boxer wears gloves and unles he is a bare knuckle boxer correctly trained the hands might some how get demolished, as in by e bye knuckles. Hello swollen hands..

Ok the training aspect is good but tell me what is the difference between some trad martial artists and some
boxers?

note I said some


Trad guys wear gloves if sparring but they can also ( or they should ) do it minus gloves.



Te- where it was said karate was to have partly originated from was a form of boxing.Unless I got my history wrong?


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#167470 - 06/16/06 07:46 AM Re: Boxing for realistic self defense?? [Re: Lord_Morningstar]
adaca Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 95
Which boxer?

I know people who train karate who have never had a street fight who are good , very good


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#167471 - 06/16/06 07:55 AM Re: Boxing for realistic self defense?? [Re: adaca]
adaca Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 95
I aint knocking boxing, its a good sport. I boxed myself for a while, but get off the trad karate guys backs huh?
Which trad guys are some of you guys refering to?


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#167472 - 06/16/06 09:42 AM Re: Boxing for realistic self defense?? [Re: adaca]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
I think we all agree that traditional Karate is as effective as Boxing in terms of the techniques. What boxing excels in, however, is the method of training. Boxers train from early on in the ring, you start out sparring with other people at full contact relatively early on. This leads to a good understanding of how to apply the techniques under pressure and how they can be applied against a fully resisting opponent. Many Karate schools do not allow full-contact sparring and therefore many of their students do not know how to apply the techniques against someone who is fighting them without pulling punches. A lot of traditional Karateka do not even know what it feels like to really be hit, or knocked out. (I know Kyokushin Karate does have full contact sparring, so these guys have my respect in terms of their ability to apply their techniques as much as boxers do) If you train Karate in the same way as most boxers train boxing, your techniques will certainly be as effective against resisting opponents.

There is nothing wrong with training Kata, punching the air and doing light contact sparring but if you want to train for an environment where people don't pull their punches, you can't afford to pull your punches during your training.

Furthermore, there is a common trend amongst boxers to train their bodies more than in traditional MA. Many more boxers I've seen go to the gym and build up muscle, this is a practice which should also be trained in all MA, but unfortunately usually isn't.


Edited by Leo_E_49 (06/16/06 09:46 AM)
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#167473 - 06/16/06 12:40 PM Re: Boxing for realistic self defense?? [Re: adaca]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
One of the main difference in boxing and trad karate is continuation and flow. Now there isn't much difference in Real Karate and boxing except range and intent. But most Karate classes you are taught to flow and stop, and flow and stop. The intent of sparring is different Karate unless at the higher level is to score points, kos in karate are coinstindental, boxing is to score a knock out.

Now in Real Karate the intent, if you have to fight is to maim (pending the intensity) which might mean an attack on a ground, kneeling or rising opponent. Boxing highest level is the to K/O safely and halt when clinched and cover when confused.

In short Real Karate is not a sport so its not limited by rules.

Boxing is a sport it can be useful in a self defense arena but it is limited by rules, range and training in these rules.

Boxing value to a MA is full contact, fittness, flow and acceptance of contact. My 2 cent.

I agree with Leo-e-49.


Edited by Neko456 (06/16/06 01:02 PM)
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#167474 - 06/16/06 02:34 PM Re: Boxing for realistic self defense?? [Re: Neko456]
Sirkicksalot Offline
Stranger

Registered: 06/16/06
Posts: 1
My brother is a Middleweight Golden Gloves Champ and he has proven many times on the street that a straight up Boxer can easily defend himself. Me being a 3rd degree blackbelt, I like to tell him boxing is lame, but truthfully, a highly trained boxer has an amazing advantage in a street fight against a "normal Attacker

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#167475 - 06/16/06 02:53 PM Re: Boxing for realistic self defense?? [Re: Neko456]
Glockmeister Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 255
Loc: Lancaster, Pa
Quote:




Boxing is a sport it can be useful in a self defense arena but it is limited by rules, range and training in these rules.
.




How in the street is it limited by rules? A boxer can only do certain things in the ring, that doesn't mean he can't resort to other tactics besides his boxing ina street fight. I am always amazed by people who say that people trained in "sport MA's" are somehow ata disadvantage because they have rules to their matches. Yes, there are rules in the ring, but when you are a boxer and not in the ring, you are free to improvise and add to the skills you already have, including using "foul tactics" just as much as a karate practitioner or anybody else.

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