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#165011 - 07/07/05 11:39 AM What kicks?
Zombie Zero Offline
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Registered: 06/17/05
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In TKD (for the most part), students are required to learn very flashy kicks, aerials and spins. (tornado kick, 540, 720, etc.) Those kicks are very artistic, but not "real world" practical.

I was just wondering, in Karate (Shotokan for instance) are you required to perform these kicks to advance to black belt, or do you focus more on the practical ones, such as roundhouse?

Are there any aerials in Karate?

Thanks!

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#165012 - 07/07/05 11:47 AM Re: What kicks? [Re: Zombie Zero]
bo-ken Offline
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I wasn’t required to learn any flashy techniques. I do jumping front kicks and jumping rounds but they weren’t required for my belt rank.

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#165013 - 07/07/05 11:50 AM Re: What kicks? [Re: Zombie Zero]
Leo_E_49 Offline
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Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Quote:

In TKD (for the most part), students are required to learn very flashy kicks, aerials and spins. (tornado kick, 540, 720, etc.) Very artistic, but not "real world" practical.

I was just wondering, in Karate (Shotokan for instance) are you required to perform these kicks to advance to black belt, or do you focus more on the practical ones, such as roundhouse?

Are there any aerials in Karate?

Thanks!




Ahem, roundhouse is also a TKD kick. In fact, if you look at it, TKD and Karate aren't that different in their kicks. Any good Karateka should be able to do so called TKD kicks easily. Just that TKD seems to place more emphasis on kicking techniques.

TKD practitioners are taught all the same "practical" kicks as Karateka before they start on the flashy stuff.

I think you've been watching a few too many demos and haven't sparred a TKD practitioner before.


Edited by Leo_E_49 (07/07/05 11:51 AM)
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#165014 - 07/07/05 11:57 AM Re: What kicks? [Re: Leo_E_49]
Zombie Zero Offline
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Bo-Ken
Thanks. What belt are you now? What style?

Leo,
Quote:

Ahem, roundhouse is also a TKD kick.



I know that.

Quote:

TKD practitioners are taught all the same "practical" kicks as Karateka before they start on the flashy stuff.




Yes, no kidding.

Quote:

I think you've been watching a few too many demos and haven't sparred a TKD practitioner before.



Actually, I spar with TKDs very often. They never do an aerial 720 in free sparring, unless they want either to get kicked in the back, or fall on the ground when I'm not in that spot when they finish.

I didn't say that TKDs ONLY practice flashy kicks. Go back, read my post again, and try a little reading comprehension before you flame me.

Thank you.
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#165015 - 07/07/05 12:05 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Zombie Zero]
Leo_E_49 Offline
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Oops .

Well you'll find that the kicks in TKD are very similar to particularly Shotokan Karate. TKD is apparently a semi-derivative of the Shotokan style.

So if you know that TKD doesn't just train flashy kicks, what makes you think that Karateka don't train flashy kicks?

I'll be willing to bet that if you go around and rephrase this topic as "Karateka can't do flashy kicks", you'll get a big rebuttal.

It's not the art that matters, it's the individual who makes the difference. You choose what kicks you want to use and what you don't, no art can force you to use flashy kicks in a situation where practical ones are required.

In fact, when I did my grading for black belt in WTF TKD, I did only one single flashy kick (360 roundhouse). Other than that it was just roundhouses, front kicks and side kicks. Even the Koryo pattern (for 1st Dan) doesn't include flashy kicks. The closest you get is a jumping front kick in Pal Jang (required for 1st Kup), which you can readily find in many Karate styles.


Edited by Leo_E_49 (07/07/05 12:11 PM)
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#165016 - 07/07/05 12:11 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Leo_E_49]
Zombie Zero Offline
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Quote:

So if you know that TKD doesn't just train flashy kicks, what makes you think that Karateka don't train flashy kicks?



Here we go again. I don't think that. That's the question I'm asking. Do Karateka practise these kicks? Is it required for black belt?

Quote:

I'll be willing to bet that if you go around and rephrase this topic as "Karateka can't do flashy kicks", you'll get a big rebuttal.



No sensible interpretation of my original question would lead you to think I'm saying that.

Are you really this obtuse, or are you just trolling me?

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#165017 - 07/07/05 12:15 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Zombie Zero]
Leo_E_49 Offline
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Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Quote:

In TKD (for the most part), students are required to learn very flashy kicks, aerials and spins. (tornado kick, 540, 720, etc.) Very artistic, but not "real world" practical.

I was just wondering, in Karate (Shotokan for instance) are you required to perform these kicks to advance to black belt, or do you focus more on the practical ones, such as roundhouse?

Are there any aerials in Karate?

Thanks!




I am really that obtuse. Sometimes things have to be spelled out for me. I'm surprised that you think that flashy kicks are required for TKD black belt.
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#165018 - 07/07/05 12:20 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Leo_E_49]
Zombie Zero Offline
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Leo,

I looked at some TKD schools in my area, and they do in fact require these kicks, not just at black belt, but at lower ones, too.

For instance, in order to advance to blue belt, one must break a board with a jump spin back kick.

I have this weird thing I do: When I don't know something, but would like to know, I do some research. I also ask questions of people who would most likely know the answer.

If you can't answer my question, that's fine. Just stop putting words in my mouth. Thank you.

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#165019 - 07/07/05 12:57 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Zombie Zero]
Leo_E_49 Offline
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Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Well, I certainly agree with asking questions.

I'm surprised and disappointed that TKD schools in your area make it a grading requirement to do flashy kicks and board breaks. Perhaps TKD is not as practical where you live as I thought.

Good luck with whatever you are searching for.

P.S. My apologies if I misinterpreted what you were saying about TKD and Karate, no harm intended. From my experience with friends in Karate, they train just as well at flashy kicking even up to black belt. Also, grading syllabi will vary depending on the organisation/school/instructor, not just the style.


Edited by Leo_E_49 (07/07/05 01:02 PM)
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#165020 - 07/07/05 01:39 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Leo_E_49]
RealUltimatePower.net Offline
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Registered: 03/14/05
Posts: 2
Post something that makes sense or don't post at all!


Edited by SANCHIN31 (07/07/05 02:41 PM)

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#165021 - 07/07/05 02:16 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Zombie Zero]
Kintama Offline
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ZZ, your original question. I know in all Okinawan Karate styles that I've seen, spinning kicks are not even practiced muchless tested for. We goofed around with them before and after class, but that was it. the fancy-shmansy techniques are mostly used in some competiton oriented dojos. also, they are an effective recruitment tool (sometimes for mcdojos) used in demos to impress pre-adults.

I'm used to seeing these in non-comp Karate styles:
front,side,RH, kick with knee, kick to knee, sweep,cresent,rear,jumping snap kick (although it's more of a low skip than a high jump).

another interesting note: the only kicks of this list which do not appear in trad. kata is, rear kick and RH.

hope that gives an idea...oh heads up- someone from a sport karate and/or mcdojo will disagree with me.

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#165022 - 07/07/05 02:20 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Kintama]
Zombie Zero Offline
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Kintama,

Thank you! That's the kind of helpful, informative response I was hoping to find.
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#165023 - 07/07/05 02:44 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Zombie Zero]
SANCHIN31 Offline
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Registered: 12/26/04
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Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Ditto on what Kintama said. I do goju-no kicks above the waist,maybe stomach.
I was witness to a kempo/gung-fu blackbelt test,they had to do jump spinning kicks and the like.
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#165024 - 07/07/05 03:29 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Kintama]
kenposan Offline
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Registered: 08/23/01
Posts: 633
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
When I started Okinawa kenpo, the flashiest kick we did was the jumping,spinning crecent kick. Yes, it was required. My instructor has since removed it as a requirement (thank goodness) but teaches it for fun.
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#165025 - 07/07/05 06:19 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Zombie Zero]
McSensei Offline
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Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
My style do no jumping kicks whatsoever. The only jumping kick that I personally throw in is tobi mae geri. This is, as kintama said, more of a skip to cover distance rather than for height.
The previous style I trained in, it was a requirement of BB grading. We started learning them at 3rd kyu. Tobi, mae, mawashi, yoko and ushiro geri were the required kicks. Yuk!
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#165026 - 07/07/05 08:14 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Zombie Zero]
Victor Smith Offline
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Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
What karate does for kicking is so varied.
The older Okinawan styles might not have used much more than front kicks (as evidenced in the older kata), and even the performance changed as systems of study changed. The later Okinawan styles seemed to incoroporate other styles of kicking, perhaps from their Chinese origins (such as Goju's).

The Isshinryu I practice (originated on Okinawa, but today quite American) included almost the entire range of Okinawan kicking, but also included much of the changes, roundhouse kicks, spinning kicks. Jumping kicks were incorporated in the Okinawan kata of our system.

My instructors were very pragmatic, and students were encouraged to move to whatever kicking range of practice they could perform. I follow the same pratice today, I believe its in the interest of best exercise and increasing one's range of flexability.

It is true TKD incorporates a range of kicking the Okinawan styles do not traditinally explore, but then the Okinawan styles incorporate an entire range of kicking TKD can't do because they don't practice them either, and you can't do what you don't practice.

Then again I consider most TKD just the middle range of extreme kicking, the Northern Chinese stylists have access to a wider range of kicking techinques than TKD possesses (such as butterfly kicks, etc.). Then again the Chinese also specialize in lower kicking techniques (Tam Tuie) than the rest too.

But modern TKD (from Korea) has done what everyone else has done and 'borrowed' from the Chinese too.

For shere practicality, the range of Okinawan kicking, to break/dislocate legs, smash inner thighs, hip joints and lower ribs, including the toe kicking of the Ueichi Stylist which slightly parallels the toe/boot kicking of the Tam Tui'e Chinese stylist) is quite functional, and sufficient for me, especially as most of the Okinawan kicking is not youth dependent, allowing trecherous oldsters to keep going.
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#165027 - 07/07/05 11:34 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Victor Smith]
Ironfoot Offline
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Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
Quote:

...quite functional, and sufficient for me, especially as most of the Okinawan kicking is not youth dependent, allowing trecherous oldsters to keep going.




My intentions exactly, Victor!
I never went for flash; instead my kicks were developed for power. If faced with an extremely powerful opponent, I wanted something to stop him cold, not impress him with acrobatics.

However...McSensei, like your teacher, I loved the mai tobi geri to cover distance in my younger days. When an opponent backs straight away, it's a great closer. It's the only jumping kick EXPLICITILY demonstrated in Isshinryu katas. By the way, are you an Okinawan stylist?
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#165028 - 07/07/05 11:55 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Victor Smith]
BuDoc Offline
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Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1067
Loc: USA and Abroad
Once again Mr. Smith succinctly conveys thoughts that most never could.

Nice post Victor.

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#165029 - 07/08/05 01:37 AM Re: What kicks? [Re: Victor Smith]
Isshinryukid4life Offline
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The Isshinryu I practice (originated on Okinawa, but today quite American) included almost the entire range of Okinawan kicking, but also included much of the changes, roundhouse kicks, spinning kicks. Jumping kicks were incorporated in the Okinawan kata of our system.

There's no evidence of this,Unless it's happening in your area.


My instructors were very pragmatic, and students were encouraged to move to whatever kicking range of practice they could perform. I follow the same pratice today, I believe its in the interest of best exercise and increasing one's range of flexability.

Victor,I assume that You'er speaking of this as a self defense technique,If that's tha case I would have to respectfully disagree.;)




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#165030 - 07/08/05 03:51 AM Re: What kicks? [Re: Isshinryukid4life]
Leo_E_49 Offline
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Let's hear from some of the people who studied Japanese styles of Karate too. I'm interested in seeing whether their kicks differ from the Okinawan styles.

Btw, I did not mean to flame, just ensure TKD had its own voice here too, considering this is involving a comparison with TKD.


Edited by Leo_E_49 (07/08/05 03:52 AM)
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#165031 - 07/08/05 06:39 AM Re: What kicks? [Re: Isshinryukid4life]
Victor Smith Offline
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Isshinryukid4life,

First in Chinto Kata and Kusanku Kata jumping front kicks are included, as my instructors got it from Shimabuku. I was taught two different methods for kick execution and use both to this day. Of course there is great variance how Isshinryu was transmitted by the founder and I could understand how some Isshinryu might be using different answers.

The roundhouse kick has been on Mr. Lewis' chart 2 for the 32 years I've been practicing the system, but chatting with others in Isshinryu on the nets I've found multiple variations of what charts are being taught. Likewise our chart contains side kicks and front thrust kicks on the floor. I prefer the depth of kicking my instructors shared.

For the spinning back kick, I'm sure it was a result of opent tournmanet sparring. We were taught them (as well as spinning back fists) and utilized them as our talents indicated. For the record the spinning back kick can be seen in kusanku kata as an extension/interpretation of the crescent kick drop to the floor, which can also be interpreted as a butterfly kick. So the inherent movement still is a part of the Isshinryu system regardless of the source.

As regards "My instructors were very pragmatic, and students were encouraged to move to whatever kicking range of practice they could perform. I follow the same pratice today, I believe its in the interest of best exercise and increasing one's range of flexability". I'm referring to the entire range of karate activity, including sport and physical development.

Much of the range of kicking in discussion is nothing I would teach for self defense. But that does not preclude interest, fun in competition or personal choice either. And just because I can't do something for self defensse does not mean there isn't somebody who can't do it, even if I feel it's foolish.

I cast no aspersion on any of the Isshinryu ways, but I can only practice it as I was taught, and share it as my instructors shared it with me.
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#165032 - 07/08/05 01:22 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Ironfoot]
McSensei Offline
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The style I train is referred to, by the club itself, as "Traditional Japanese Karate."
Where they get this from I don't quite know, as out of the 10
kata practised within the system 5 are Shotokan and 5 are from Goju. Therefore, it is in actual fact a combination of both Japanese and Okinawan, karate.
The founder of this style (Kancho Robert Sullivan, Go Kan Ryu ) believed he had taken the best of both and combined them into a very basic, (we don't actually have that many individual techniques) but effective fighting system.

Victor,
We practice the shotokan version of Kusanku (Kanku-dai)
and the problem I have with this kata is the jumping kick toward the end. If katas were designed to be realistic fighting systems why on Earth is this kick even in the kata.
In Shotokan this is not merely a tobi mae geri, which could have a practical use (covering ground), it is a nidan geri which I cannot see as practical.
Or is this kick (nidan geri) one of Itosus' or Funakoshis' disguises?


Edited by McSensei (07/08/05 01:27 PM)
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#165033 - 07/08/05 04:00 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: McSensei]
Ironfoot Offline
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By a ni(dan) geri, do you mean 2 front snap kicks, one after the other? That's what I do at the end of Kusanku, not a jumping kick like in Chinto. It's much harder to throw the second kick as soon as your first kicking foot hits the floor than jumping up and throwing both.
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#165034 - 07/08/05 04:11 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Ironfoot]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
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AKK does teach some "flashy" kicks, but the ones taught early are strictly power moves (eg, adding momentum because you have the opening), and later on kicks like a spinning crescent are taught. I haven't seen any aerial kicks in AKK though.

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#165035 - 07/08/05 06:52 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: McSensei]
Victor Smith Offline
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McSensei,

The problem isn't with the jumping kick(s) at the end of Kusanku(Kanku-Dai) but how you're viewing it. There are any number of uses which are practical, including at the lowest level, instead of the first part of the kick, stepping forward and then throwing the 2nd kick.

Unfortunately trying to describe the range of applications within the technique series usage is extremly hard with just words, and, it really depends on which variation one is using, as I focus on the Isshinryu version I was taught, there are likely some differences in the variation you use, and the application potential would be different.

First as long as you have enough technique to stop an attack, it isn't necessary to worry about each movement's potential appication. The kick can be just exercise to strengthen your legs, and that's fine too.

Wrenching out every possible application potential is a lifetime study just for the art, after all any one technique in itself should be enough to counter almost any attack, if you're really good at it, and that's a lifetime study too.

I understand potential uses for the double jumping kicks (none of which are for samuari on horesback), and there are a few students that I would focus on that potential, but for the rest I'd focus on the exercise to build leg strength.

Just a few thoughts,
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#165036 - 07/08/05 08:32 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Ironfoot]
McSensei Offline
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By Ni-dan geri, the way I've been taught, I mean the following;
From migi zenkutsu dachi. (Rt.Fwd stance)* Launch forward kicking chudan mae geri, before landing perform jodan mae geri with other leg. Obviously the height of this kick can be varied to a more sensible level, but even performed a lot lower it is still pretty difficult.
The ni-dan roughly translates as 2 level.
* Not being patronizing just not sure if we use the same terminology.


Edited by McSensei (07/08/05 08:54 PM)

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#165037 - 07/12/05 01:22 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Leo_E_49]
Neko456 Offline
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There is a big difference in TKD and a system like Shotokan, or Goju-ryu. Basic and perfection of basic combinaions are stressed with Goju & Shotokan. Whereas learning to do the split kicks and jump kicks in combination is tressed in TKD. I saw the matrix front kick in 1985 a TKD 6th dan did up a heavy bag. I was not impressed, it didn't look very praciticle. Now as a young brown - black belt, I was able do all kind of things, I was flexible. I can still some of the fancy kicks but when I do I ask myself why? There are so many techinque that take less energy and are more accurate.

Thats 1 of the things that I disliked is TKD for Nidan up you learn all kinds of basic built upon like the jump round kick & jsbk & rk before hit the ground. It does take some fitness to do that but how praciticle is it for street applications.

Whereas Goju stresses swiping elbow, back fist, groin slap or tear, palm strike sweep & front kick in combo. Shotokan the side elbow backfist, reverse punch, & front kick (that thrust like a side kick).

I often am amused at my ex-wife's son doing his axe kick thinking thats impressive, he is flexible but how practicle is it in a street encounter.

Now the fact that they can kick fast to the head, its really fast low. I remember when we both young bb, this Mudukwan-do player had a front leg rk to the grion that almost impossible to block by hand. You had to block it with your sanchin or legs, it was too low and fast otherwise.
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#165038 - 07/12/05 06:24 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Neko456]
shoshinkan Offline
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on the subject of nidan geri, which I think is the only 'jumping' kick practised in the majority of shorin ryu.

My thoughts ar ethat the kick is designed for the following -

to 'blast' out of a corner

to fake a low kick and contact with the second kick

Im sur ethere is a better reason, but this is what my understanding of the technique is thus far

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#165039 - 07/14/05 09:03 AM Re: What kicks? [Re: Zombie Zero]
Acid Offline
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i have studied a few styles of karate and TKD over the years and have found that most of what both teach to be very similar . as has been stated above by a few people each stlye places different emphasis on specific techniques over others. in TKD this is clearly kicking techniques. because of this emphasis on longer ranged combat it makes sense that they would develope and concentrate on kicking to a larger and "flashier" extent.

throughout my training (about eightish years) i have found that most styles of karate teach advanced kicking techniques but dont nessesarily use them nor grade people on them until much later on.. the less experienced TKD student will have beter balance and ability for kicking earlier and progress further quicker than the Karate student as far as kicking is concerned.
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#165040 - 07/14/05 12:06 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Zombie Zero]
bo-ken Offline
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Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 1228
Loc: beaver falls, PA, beaver
ZombieZero I am a Nidan in Shotokan.

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#165041 - 07/19/05 04:16 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Victor Smith]
sweep the leg Offline
Member

Registered: 10/12/04
Posts: 48
Quote:


The problem isn't with the jumping kick(s) at the end of Kusanku(Kanku-Dai) but how you're viewing it.




yeah I think you touched on soemthing...

Remember the situations these kata were designed for / sprang from are not necessarily all tournaments or one on one competition sparring. Probably also for battlefield scenarios. Or more likely in relatively peaceful okinawa, confrontations between groups, more of a "street" scenario. In a crowded room, busy street, out in the country in the dirt & weeds etc. The confrontations were likely unannounced or unplanned. Maybe multiple oppenents, gangs. No polished even wood floors with one oppenent in front of you.

With this in mind, some practicality emerges from jumping techniques.

jumping over an obstacle to kick an oppenent or just to avoid attack. like if you were chased as a kid (and you knew you'd get caught)you instinctively got something solid between you and the persuer.

jumping down a short set of stairs to kick an opponent, bowl him over, clear out a crowded landing, clear a path.

jump through a doorway, over a wall... lots of scenarios. i think you just have to think more in the context of your everyday environment, not the competition ring.

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#165042 - 08/23/05 12:52 AM Re: What kicks? [Re: RealUltimatePower.net]
Shotokan_Nut Offline
Member

Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 43
Loc: Liverpool, England
we dont do any jumping kicks in shotokan since balance is already reduced balancing on one foot
_________________________
"There Are Many Imitations, But Only One Shotokan" Gichin Funakoshi

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#165043 - 08/23/05 01:07 AM Re: What kicks? [Re: Shotokan_Nut]
Mark Hill Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1068
Loc: Australia
To be the devil's advocate, I have seen a very old article in Black Belt where Teruo Chinen (Goju Master) was practicing jumping back kicks and spinning kicks.

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#165044 - 08/23/05 05:17 AM Re: What kicks? [Re: Mark Hill]
xamax Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 15
the real shotokan only have 3 belts, white, brown and black. to be honest i only spent over 6 months of doing it. it was brutal 8,000 punches, 8000 kicks, 100 times of kata, under 1 freak hour. yes there are kick in shotokan. each moves each hand techniques, leg techniques are very dangerous. it comprises of power and speed. there are so much power in each movements that it is scary.. as for those people who u see doing ariel or jump side kick, Round house. those people are just bullshit. there are no such things in shotokan. there are step side kick (low kick) and side kick (it is the type of front kick that u turn to the side). i do respect those who trained or training in shotokan. it is one brutal art.

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#165045 - 08/24/05 12:41 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: RealUltimatePower.net]
webby Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/05
Posts: 147
Loc: newton abbot devon
when i went for my sho-dan i did not need to do any "flashy kicks"! but now i do like to learn the more advance kicks!

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#165046 - 08/28/05 12:54 AM Re: What kicks? [Re: Zombie Zero]
heikeshogun Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 23
we do, but they're pretty useful, I use spin kicks and junps alot in practice sparring, they're extremely effective and we are required to learn them
_________________________
"Better to be a tiger for a day than a sheep for a lifetime." ~ Chinese Proverb

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#165047 - 09/21/05 01:28 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Zombie Zero]
roniwankan Offline
Member

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 99
Loc: Brazil, Goias
Gichin Funakoshi (Shotokan's founder) told: Train kihon correctly, but in fight it is little different.
Hey, at least in Brasil, the black belt does not require exceptional things, they focus on kihon, it means, firm stance, chudan geri, if u think that high kicks are beatyfull the masters do not!!!
_________________________
KARATE DO GA MUZUKASHII MICHI ARUKI NI DESSU, SHIKASHI YOI MONO WO YARI MASSU.

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#165048 - 09/23/05 11:09 AM Re: What kicks? [Re: Shotokan_Nut]
sweep the leg Offline
Member

Registered: 10/12/04
Posts: 48
Quote:

we dont do any jumping kicks in shotokan since balance is already reduced balancing on one foot




yes you do,

jumping kicks: kanku dai, gankaku, unsu

jumping techniques: heian godan, kanku dai, kanku sho, empi, meikyo, unsu

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#165049 - 09/27/05 08:43 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Zombie Zero]
SenseiRob2004 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/04
Posts: 34
Zombie,

It really boils down to your dojo. Some schools require useless kicks, some don't. I was taught a few pointless kicks, and had to perform them during my test but I wasn't graded poorly if I didn't perform them well. Personnally any kick requiring you to leave the ground or move your focus from your opponent are too risky for my blood. I rather kick no higher than the stomach.

In the TKD class I attended they required all those flashy kicks & board breaking. Even had them toss a board in the air & attempt to puch break it. Again to me....totally pointless. I'd rather have students break concrete...but oh well....to each his own.

Sensei

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