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#165021 - 07/07/05 02:16 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Zombie Zero]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
ZZ, your original question. I know in all Okinawan Karate styles that I've seen, spinning kicks are not even practiced muchless tested for. We goofed around with them before and after class, but that was it. the fancy-shmansy techniques are mostly used in some competiton oriented dojos. also, they are an effective recruitment tool (sometimes for mcdojos) used in demos to impress pre-adults.

I'm used to seeing these in non-comp Karate styles:
front,side,RH, kick with knee, kick to knee, sweep,cresent,rear,jumping snap kick (although it's more of a low skip than a high jump).

another interesting note: the only kicks of this list which do not appear in trad. kata is, rear kick and RH.

hope that gives an idea...oh heads up- someone from a sport karate and/or mcdojo will disagree with me.

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#165022 - 07/07/05 02:20 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Kintama]
Zombie Zero Offline
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Registered: 06/17/05
Posts: 1992
Loc: Lorton, VA
Kintama,

Thank you! That's the kind of helpful, informative response I was hoping to find.
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#165023 - 07/07/05 02:44 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Zombie Zero]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Ditto on what Kintama said. I do goju-no kicks above the waist,maybe stomach.
I was witness to a kempo/gung-fu blackbelt test,they had to do jump spinning kicks and the like.
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#165024 - 07/07/05 03:29 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Kintama]
kenposan Offline
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Registered: 08/23/01
Posts: 633
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
When I started Okinawa kenpo, the flashiest kick we did was the jumping,spinning crecent kick. Yes, it was required. My instructor has since removed it as a requirement (thank goodness) but teaches it for fun.
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#165025 - 07/07/05 06:19 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Zombie Zero]
McSensei Offline
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Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
My style do no jumping kicks whatsoever. The only jumping kick that I personally throw in is tobi mae geri. This is, as kintama said, more of a skip to cover distance rather than for height.
The previous style I trained in, it was a requirement of BB grading. We started learning them at 3rd kyu. Tobi, mae, mawashi, yoko and ushiro geri were the required kicks. Yuk!
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#165026 - 07/07/05 08:14 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Zombie Zero]
Victor Smith Offline
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Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
What karate does for kicking is so varied.
The older Okinawan styles might not have used much more than front kicks (as evidenced in the older kata), and even the performance changed as systems of study changed. The later Okinawan styles seemed to incoroporate other styles of kicking, perhaps from their Chinese origins (such as Goju's).

The Isshinryu I practice (originated on Okinawa, but today quite American) included almost the entire range of Okinawan kicking, but also included much of the changes, roundhouse kicks, spinning kicks. Jumping kicks were incorporated in the Okinawan kata of our system.

My instructors were very pragmatic, and students were encouraged to move to whatever kicking range of practice they could perform. I follow the same pratice today, I believe its in the interest of best exercise and increasing one's range of flexability.

It is true TKD incorporates a range of kicking the Okinawan styles do not traditinally explore, but then the Okinawan styles incorporate an entire range of kicking TKD can't do because they don't practice them either, and you can't do what you don't practice.

Then again I consider most TKD just the middle range of extreme kicking, the Northern Chinese stylists have access to a wider range of kicking techinques than TKD possesses (such as butterfly kicks, etc.). Then again the Chinese also specialize in lower kicking techniques (Tam Tuie) than the rest too.

But modern TKD (from Korea) has done what everyone else has done and 'borrowed' from the Chinese too.

For shere practicality, the range of Okinawan kicking, to break/dislocate legs, smash inner thighs, hip joints and lower ribs, including the toe kicking of the Ueichi Stylist which slightly parallels the toe/boot kicking of the Tam Tui'e Chinese stylist) is quite functional, and sufficient for me, especially as most of the Okinawan kicking is not youth dependent, allowing trecherous oldsters to keep going.
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#165027 - 07/07/05 11:34 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Victor Smith]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
Quote:

...quite functional, and sufficient for me, especially as most of the Okinawan kicking is not youth dependent, allowing trecherous oldsters to keep going.




My intentions exactly, Victor!
I never went for flash; instead my kicks were developed for power. If faced with an extremely powerful opponent, I wanted something to stop him cold, not impress him with acrobatics.

However...McSensei, like your teacher, I loved the mai tobi geri to cover distance in my younger days. When an opponent backs straight away, it's a great closer. It's the only jumping kick EXPLICITILY demonstrated in Isshinryu katas. By the way, are you an Okinawan stylist?
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#165028 - 07/07/05 11:55 PM Re: What kicks? [Re: Victor Smith]
BuDoc Offline
The doctor will see you now

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1067
Loc: USA and Abroad
Once again Mr. Smith succinctly conveys thoughts that most never could.

Nice post Victor.

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#165029 - 07/08/05 01:37 AM Re: What kicks? [Re: Victor Smith]
Isshinryukid4life Offline
Professional Injury causer

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 2455
Loc: Knoxville.

The Isshinryu I practice (originated on Okinawa, but today quite American) included almost the entire range of Okinawan kicking, but also included much of the changes, roundhouse kicks, spinning kicks. Jumping kicks were incorporated in the Okinawan kata of our system.

There's no evidence of this,Unless it's happening in your area.


My instructors were very pragmatic, and students were encouraged to move to whatever kicking range of practice they could perform. I follow the same pratice today, I believe its in the interest of best exercise and increasing one's range of flexability.

Victor,I assume that You'er speaking of this as a self defense technique,If that's tha case I would have to respectfully disagree.;)




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#165030 - 07/08/05 03:51 AM Re: What kicks? [Re: Isshinryukid4life]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Let's hear from some of the people who studied Japanese styles of Karate too. I'm interested in seeing whether their kicks differ from the Okinawan styles.

Btw, I did not mean to flame, just ensure TKD had its own voice here too, considering this is involving a comparison with TKD.


Edited by Leo_E_49 (07/08/05 03:52 AM)
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