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#164672 - 07/06/05 01:26 PM Counter to the Guillotine Choke
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
A question was brought up recently about counters to the Guillotine or Front Headlock Choke. Here is my take on it.

#1 Standing or in the guard, the first priority is to protect your airway. You do that two ways: 1. By turning your head in toward your opponents ribs. 2. With your hand, pull down on his wrist to give you some relief. These need to be done simultaneously to give you best chance to effectively defend the immediate threat.

#2 If you are both standing, the second priority is to upset your opponents balance and take away his leverage. One way to do this is to reach with your free hand (*he is choking you with his right arm, your head is on his right side*) over his opposite shoulder like you are trying to grab his belt. As he lifts to apply the choke, he is now lifting all of your weight, not just your head and neck. If he keeps trying crank it on, let him get tired. Go for a single leg and dump him on the ground.

If you are stuck in his Guard and he has a Guillotine, follow the same guidelines. Protect your airway. Reach over his opposite shoulder, get up on you toes and drive into his neck and throat with your own shoulder. Hold tight as he will be trying to tap you out by pushing you away with his hips. If and when he opens his legs, remember to pass to the opposite side that he has your head. This is a self correcting error. If you goof it up, you'll only do it once.

This is a BJJ101 counter to the Guillotine. I know there are many variations but they all generally follow the major points above.


Edited by Fletch1 (07/06/05 01:30 PM)
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#164673 - 07/06/05 07:33 PM Re: Counter to the Guillotine Choke [Re: Fletch1]
BigRod Offline
Does it all

Registered: 02/10/05
Posts: 736
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Seems like you missed something in #2.

After you drape your hand over his shoulder (be sure you are doing step 2 of #1 to defend the choke) you actually jump onto your opponent, placing your shins on his thighs. Only then is he carrying all your weight. That should relieve the pressure of the choke, and he will tire.

Once he tires, he'll loosen or release the choke. Immediately drop your feet to the ground (leaving the hand on his shoulder), and use your free hand to reach in between his legs performing a high-crotch, hip in and lift/turn your opponent into the air, and you should be able to take from there.

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#164674 - 07/06/05 08:48 PM Re: Counter to the Guillotine Choke [Re: BigRod]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
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I have also seen the (standing guillotine) escape where you turn to the outside of the the choking arm (taking your inside shoulder under opponent's elbow and through to the outside), so that you end up behind the opponent, facing the same direction.
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#164675 - 07/06/05 10:35 PM Re: Counter to the Guillotine Choke [Re: BigRod]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
Big Rod,

Actually, I do not include this as part of the fundamental technique even though we were shown that as well. I first learned this from Carlson Sr. I look at that as an addition to the basic technique or a method to tire your opponent more quickly.

Good point though.

Matt,

Are you talking about the arm-in Guillotine? If so, I can see your point. If it is neck only, I don't see how you can get your arm in.
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#164676 - 07/06/05 10:36 PM Re: Counter to the Guillotine Choke [Re: MattJ]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Turn your head away from his elbow bend.Then use your forearm against his neck,use the other arm to reenforce the pry.
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#164677 - 07/07/05 07:52 AM Re: Counter to the Guillotine Choke [Re: Fletch1]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

Are you talking about the arm-in Guillotine? If so, I can see your point. If it is neck only, I don't see how you can get your arm in.




Sorry, I knew I did not explain that right.

It is neck only, your shoulder goes under the attacker's (choking) arm. You are not attempting to get your arm between the opponent's arm. You are trying to "spin out" of the choke. Hope that helps.
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#164678 - 07/07/05 11:19 AM Re: Counter to the Guillotine Choke [Re: MattJ]
fattts14 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/07/05
Posts: 224
Loc: T.O. On, Can
Why pull on the guys wrist...one finger is a lot easier to manipulate and easier to break... turning your head is risky business cause it is more likely to breack your neck
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#164679 - 07/07/05 11:32 AM Re: Counter to the Guillotine Choke [Re: fattts14]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
The neck is a lot harder to to break than that and you have to preserve your airway. While you are digging for a finger, you are being bar choked across the throat. Time is a bit limited.

To me, it makes more sense to mechanically counter the choke, which is of course the strategy of BJJ.

Not saying that finger locks are not effective, just that in this situation they might not be the first tactic you should try.
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#164680 - 07/11/05 11:07 AM Re: Counter to the Guillotine Choke [Re: Fletch1]
Gula Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/04
Posts: 78
Ive been taught a counter wich I have managed to get work some times is to put your free hand under the opponents arm and grasp to his colar or shoulder so he cannot straighten he's back to get the choke effective.
This might allso buy you some time if the opponent isnt good with guillotines to get the legs and throw him to the ground and there basicly just pull your head out of the arms.
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