FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 36 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
mohdnabeel, sunny, swordy, jerrybarry24, SenseiGregT
22915 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
futsaowingchun 3
Matakiant 3
AndyLA 3
GojuRyuboy13 1
log1call 1
September
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
New Topics
Tan,Bong,Fuk & Wu Sao
by futsaowingchun
Today at 12:10 AM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
09/25/14 08:50 AM
Wing Chun-internal training
by futsaowingchun
09/23/14 09:01 PM
Martial News
by Matakiant
09/23/14 06:42 AM
STX Kickboxing Seminar
by Marcus Charles
09/09/14 06:57 PM
Biu Tzu- 1st section applications
by futsaowingchun
09/05/14 10:56 PM
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
09/01/14 03:51 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
mindfullness meditation
by
01/06/09 11:27 AM
Recent Posts
Tan,Bong,Fuk & Wu Sao
by futsaowingchun
Today at 12:10 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Victor Smith
09/28/14 07:11 PM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
09/25/14 08:50 AM
Wing Chun-internal training
by futsaowingchun
09/23/14 09:01 PM
Martial News
by Matakiant
09/23/14 06:42 AM
attacked from behind
by AndyLA
09/19/14 09:05 AM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
09/18/14 06:07 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by Zombie Zero
09/16/14 04:43 PM
Eugue Ryu
by kolslaw
09/12/14 03:35 PM
Biu Tzu- 1st section applications
by futsaowingchun
09/05/14 10:56 PM
Forum Stats
22915 Members
36 Forums
35579 Topics
432500 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#163720 - 07/03/05 07:23 PM Re: What happens to instructors/students when... [Re: Kintama]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Kintama,

I realize that the problem wasn't yours . But the hypotheitical situation that you listed, I think resonates with more problems than does Sanchin's or mine.

The other situation that, at least, we have is that when the new instructor was installed and promoted by my old instructor, there was a statement for adult students that you had to practice continually for 1 and 1/2 years before any testing was allowed.

To this day, if you are gone for more than 2 months, you are not allowed to wear your rank in class unless otherwise told by the head instructor that you can retain your rank. So, after I recuperate from knee surgery I will shuttle my ass back to the dojo with a white belt...until such time that the instructor says, I can put my BB on again. But, again, ranks mean little except where you position yourself in line.

I will also say that the head instructor makes OK money...mostly from instructing kids. By the way, our dojo sponsors no tournaments nor does it have connections with other outside organizations to commit to sending students to tournaments.

However, for adults, we do have a fairly high turn over rate. Meaning folks stay for about 3-5 years which gets them a green belt. My sho-dan test was the last adult BB test that I know of.

-B

Top
#163721 - 07/03/05 07:34 PM Re: What happens to instructors/students when... [Re: eyrie]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
I've read about that org before. what is not clear is the 'qualifications' for each rank. and how is the person doing the review, qualified to perform such a review?

Top
#163722 - 07/03/05 07:44 PM Re: What happens to instructors/students when... [Re: Kintama]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Kintama,

Let me ask a question then for you:

How would you deconstruct the situation for getting knowledgeable instructors to those who want them?

Those that settle for the dregs, whether realizing it or not, will not shift their allegiances, if for nothing else, for the history they have with their current organization.

And this is meant with all due respect and earnest curiosity, how can one give a boost to those legitimately seeking honest and real education?

-B

Top
#163723 - 07/03/05 08:42 PM Re: What happens to instructors/students when... [Re: butterfly]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
Quote:

How would you deconstruct the situation for getting knowledgeable instructors to those who want them?



I can honestly say that I wouldn't even know where to begin. That indicates to me that I am unqualified to even suppose an idea. Nor do I think any mass-produced Art is a good thing.
Quote:

how can one give a boost to those legitimately seeking honest and real education?



The only thing I can think of is by eliminating the dishonesty of false claims. But, this would suggest some kind of 'standardization' in order to enforce the qualification claims...which is not a good idea and would cause stagnation and/or monopolies on the decisions which evolve styles and training methods...the decisions could even be decided with money, creating just one massive network of certifiable mcdojos....the superdojo is born!

The way it has to be is the current system - market driven. By having crap dojo's, it makes real dojos stronger...I think I'm coming to see that now. This is the opposite of how I thought 3 months ago.

[edit] I should add that the legit dojo's could have independant systems of rank without loosing even a sliver of skill. For addressing the question of inter-dojo respect and acknowledgement, thats easy, serious martial artist treat other serious MAists like they are 10th dan.

Top
#163724 - 07/03/05 08:47 PM Re: What happens to instructors/students when... [Re: butterfly]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
I hope I didn't imply that any of this is a problem at our school.Our instructor has more to offer than I will ever be able to master.Rank isn't that important to us either.
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

Top
#163725 - 07/03/05 09:13 PM Re: What happens to instructors/students when... [Re: SANCHIN31]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
not at all, SANCHIN. In fact, your dojo sounds like it has good diverse training yet keeping in the spirit and curriculum of Goju....that isn't easy to do or to find anymore.

Top
#163726 - 07/03/05 09:22 PM Re: What happens to instructors/students when... [Re: SANCHIN31]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Sanchin

No, I did not get an implication of a problem with your ranking system....just anecdotal info given with respect to Kintama's question. I think, just as you intended.

Kintama,

I guess I am starting to see things your way now, as well. I had the same problem, especially since I was involved with a McDojo once upon a time, but too ingnorant to feel it out then. And so it rankles me that others might be in the same position. However, I guess if one really wanted to be emancipated from the McDojo...involvement in one and a real search for true MAs would lead you away from it, as in my case. And those who didn't care if they were in one, wouldn't care if they got out of one. So I guess it doesn't matter for them to the betterment of those who really would like to train elsewhere.

Just that two cases have always come to mind which I have brought up before in a post of Victor's...that seclusion in an area (rural), means limited MAs and perhaps the only avenue for training is a McDojo or none at all; and in the case of children who have no choice but go where they are put by their parents.

I guess I don't have the answers, but sure wished someone did.

-B

Top
#163727 - 07/03/05 11:16 PM Re: What happens to instructors/students when... [Re: Kintama]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Re: ATAMA

It is not one person but a board of peers that define the criteria and policy for ranking. Such peerage is usually comprised of high-ranking members of their own style, most of whom have ranking in a number of styles. I think the ATAMA policy is clear in this regard.

The Australian MA industry is also moving towards similar industry level certification, with the formation of the Martial Arts Industry Association, by standardizing on a (non-content based) nationally accredited teaching and coaching qualifications. Some vocational groups also offer their own certifications (some of which are content-based, and some are not).

This is no different to the many Jujitsu federations and associations which exist to ensure the continued preservation of the art and the concommitant skill levels of its practitioners.

Generally, I think this is a step in the right direction and that nationally accredited and recognized certification levels would serve to remove the inherent bias (and politics) associated with ranks.

I think having a group of apolitical peers that officially or even semi-officially recognize the instructor's skills in both teaching and content knowledge, can serve an important purpose, particularly where the instructor is one of a few remnant individuals, due to the untimely death of the master/founder of the system, leaving the style with no heir apparent. Or where the instructor chooses to remain orphaned from the peak body for political reasons or otherwise.


FWIW,

Top
#163728 - 07/04/05 12:27 AM Re: What happens to instructors/students when... [Re: eyrie]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
There are more to the organisations than we might think. Not all of them are in the business for preserving the Art. Forget the Art for a sec and look at the money...

money coming in: dues, sponsorship, corporation endorsement, manufacturers advertising and reselling, facility rental, instruction, videos, books, patches - you name it: from the corporate from the consumer from the practicioner. money, money, money.

Expenses: laser printed certificates.
lol
ok, there are alot more expenses...but they aren't really all expenses so much as investments.

My point is, at some level, organisations make decisions based on sound business practice in order to stay open and competitive. A no-brainer for the CEO is to drift the Art to a sport version.
Nothing wrong with that, if thats what people want, they have a right to sell it. But lets not kid ourselves when we say the organization has the intention of 'preserving the Art'. some really do, I'm just saying it's worth a thought before jumping on a bandwagon to get a certificate that says you may now promote your students to x-dan, because you are now hereby x+2 dan.

Think about this...the Art was being preserved and cultivated for hundreds of years, only when it went into mass-production do we now worry about preserving and standardizing it? why? to further mass-produce it?

Top
#163729 - 07/04/05 11:12 AM Re: What happens to instructors/students when... [Re: Kintama]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
First, let's ignore the various ranks, since there are cases like Butterfly's where belts may be artifically low (an anti-McDojo?). I'd just be leary of schools where the instructors don't have a lot of experience and most importantly AREN'T PROGRESSING.

I'm lucky enough to live in a major metropolitan area where there's lots of high-ranking dans in my style (2 9ths and several 8ths). I can train and learn from them, or even mingle with other styles. Not everyone has this option. If you're out in the country, you may have to take what you can get, and even a dedicated teacher might find it hard to learn fast enough to keep ahead of his better students.

Anyone who promotes himself - anyone! - is poison as far as I'm concerned. Even a sensei from another style can promote you if it's obvious you deserve it.
_________________________

Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  Cord, MattJ, Reiki, tkd_high_green 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Self Defense
Offering stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and other self defense products not available in stores.

Pepper Spray
Online distributor of self defense supplies like videos, stun guns, Tasers and more.

Spy Cameras
Surveillance, Hidden Cameras, Nanny Cams, Digital Recorders, Spy Equipment, Pocket DVR's and more

Stun Gun
Wholesale Directlhy to the Public! Stun gun and Taser Guns and personal protection products. Keep your loved ones at home safe!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga