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#163370 - 07/02/05 03:01 AM Ankle/ Foot Locks
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
At what point did you start training Foot and Ankle Locks?

If you are a coach, when do you allow your stedents to work with them? Any restrictions?

I knew them from the start but my Brazilian Instructors never taught them and would only occasionally use them in class. I learned my Lower Body stuff almost exclusively from my coach, Luis. His students used to heelhook me all over the mat.

I will teach my new guys straight ankle locks. We will drill heelhooks after they have game with that basic lock. I do not allow heelhooks when we roll.
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#163371 - 07/02/05 04:03 AM Re: Ankle/ Foot Locks [Re: Fletch1]
Ubermint Offline
Member

Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 154
I did them from day one, as they are done at my BJJ school.
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Grappler or not you are a terrible martial artist IMO.-sanchin31, friend to all children

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#163372 - 07/02/05 08:24 AM Re: Ankle/ Foot Locks [Re: Fletch1]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
I started with leg locks from day one as well. It took me years to develop functionality with them however. Timing is the big issue (as it is with anything).

As a coach I don't know if I would teach them right away or as Fletch said, limit what you DO teach (not teaching the heel hook or allowing it during the rolling).

The conservative game is almost always the best approach for the developing guys. Learn to pass the guard and obtain a more secure position on the torso. To me, that's the conservative approach. When people have some game at controlling position somewhat, you could show a few leg locks from within the guard. Leg locks can change the course of a fight quickly. A person skilled in them can get a quick finish or conversely, can get himself/herself into some quick trouble.

Overall, it's a good idea to develop a person's positional game before anything else. After that is coming along, leg locks can add another diminsion to his/her game.

Since it's just training, I don't see anything wrong with allowing people to fight for an achilles lock during rolling or isolation training.

-John

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#163373 - 07/02/05 09:44 AM Re: Ankle/ Foot Locks [Re: Fletch1]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
I learned them in the first (Larry Hartsell) seminar I went to, but I am not really that good with them. Heel hook I have used a few times, but straight ankle locks are hard for me (incorrect wrist position or foot too high behind my arm).

We are allowed to use them when we roll, but I prefer to work positions as Fletch and JKogas have pointed out.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#163374 - 07/02/05 11:25 AM Re: Ankle/ Foot Locks [Re: MattJ]
BigRod Offline
Does it all

Registered: 02/10/05
Posts: 736
Loc: Atlanta, GA
In BJJ I didnt learn them at all. When I started submission wrestling and MMA training we did them from day one.

The real problem is students are not careful when they apply them, and they don't tap soon enough.

Heel hooks and kneebars are the worst, because the damage is done before you feel the pain. The locks need to be applied slowly when training, and when you're caught in one, tap. It's not worth it to try and be a tough guy

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#163375 - 07/02/05 11:37 AM Re: Ankle/ Foot Locks [Re: BigRod]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Bigrod,

In the BJJ school that I go to they teach them, but not until blue belt...and won't allow them in some tournaments. At purple up they allow them. I am not sure how it goes with all tournaments, I have gone to watch and support the guys but do not participate.

They do not allow white belts to do these, but I have had them applied to me and have done them. Without real care you will crank an ankle too fast for the guy to tap. Very dangerous.

Strangely enough, it was a judo-ka who first taught me these locks.

-B

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#163376 - 07/02/05 01:30 PM Re: Ankle/ Foot Locks [Re: BigRod]
Gula Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/04
Posts: 78
I find it very hard to detect when Im being set up for any leg lock =(

Quote:

The real problem is students are not careful when they apply them, and they don't tap soon enough.

Heel hooks and kneebars are the worst, because the damage is done before you feel the pain. The locks need to be applied slowly when training, and when you're caught in one, tap. It's not worth it to try and be a tough guy




Hehe aye! Recovering from a freak lock =D

I just dont know what happened everything was looking good I was on his back with my hooks in and working for a rear naked choke but then he put my one of my ankle between his tighs and somehow rolled forward(ish) and I was caught in some sort of heel lock?? I wasnt man enough to admit my defeat from a rear position soon enough...
_________________________
No Brain, No Pain!

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#163377 - 07/02/05 02:04 PM Re: Ankle/ Foot Locks [Re: Fletch1]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
The first time I attended a Bjj class I had already had some groundfighting. I did not know that Bjj guys didn't use them reglarly when rolling. The guy's leg became available so I went for a heel hook. He was surprised and mad as H311. Whoops... The next thing I know he neck cranked me. Sorry dude, this was my first time. I didn't know what the norm was.

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#163378 - 07/02/05 02:10 PM Re: Ankle/ Foot Locks [Re: oldman]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
oldman,

Similar experience: When I joined the school I practice at I had already been shown these previously, but didn't know that you couldn't use them. So, the guy's in guard, loosens one leg..and I lean back and wrap and arm around the foot with forearm to his achilles...woah!!! not allowed to use this technique yet.

Mucho apologies from me and then I get choked and have to tap!

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#163379 - 07/02/05 04:02 PM Re: Ankle/ Foot Locks [Re: butterfly]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
That is the reason I tell my new or visiting students to saty away from heelhooks.

#1 It is too easy to get injured.

#2 I want my guys to have a good positional game and dependence on footlocks seems to circumvent that.
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