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#163212 - 07/01/05 08:01 PM religion prohibition: shingon and shinto
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Question: Does the religion prohibition extend to shingon and shinto? I tried a search (one month limitation) on resources, and found nothing. If it does not, should it go under Asian Culture, Meditation, Books?

Thank you.

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#163213 - 07/01/05 08:43 PM Re: religion prohibition: shingon and shinto [Re: harlan]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Good question Harlan.:)

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#163214 - 07/02/05 06:41 PM Re: religion prohibition: shingon and shinto [Re: oldman]
Iamdadude Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 83
If it doesn't, that'd be pretty messed up... ;(

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#163215 - 07/02/05 06:59 PM Re: religion prohibition: shingon and shinto [Re: harlan]
Kintama Offline
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Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
Someone can correct me if I've got this wrong, but it seems like religion can be mentioned as long as it is done so neutrally and is in the context of bettering your MA. No preaching and no bashing.

There is a forum called Zen -it would be impossible to talk about Zen without sometimes mentioning Buddhism religion. Zen Buddhism has affected native eastern MA as much as western religion/beliefs/values/philosophies has affected native western MA's. The literal folklore differences put aside, all religions seem to have a similar message...to improve yourself in all ways. Which words are used: reaching enlightenment, nirvana, heaven or an evolved state should not make a difference to a Martial Artist since any and all may apply to improve yourself.

If no other religions can be mentioned if even in a neutral way, someday someone will challenge the fact there is a forum named 'Zen' and it would need to be renamed something like 'Martial Ways and Philosophies'.

Lessons/thoughts/philosophies as it applies to MA should be allowed reguardless of their origin; whereas political, religious ideology and theology should not be permitted and is a bit pointless by begging for a flame crusade since those sets of beliefs are unique and personal to each - same goes for lifestyles, orientations and controversial views. -there are other forums to discuss those things.

Shingon is a school of buddhism that I'm not familiar with.
Shinto is interwoven into buddhism. The worship and admiration of nature is the central theme. connections to MA: When Sumo wrestlers throw salt on the arena before a match it has shinto meaning and origin. wooden chopsticks and weapons, taking shoes off before entering a dojo or home, words with power ie:"Kiai" - all of these things have Shinto origins that is so part of buddhism the distiction is rarely made.

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#163216 - 07/02/05 07:47 PM Re: religion prohibition: shingon and shinto [Re: Kintama]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Well, I guess I am feeling a little gun shy this week...so I thought I would ask. Fact is, I have an academic interest in the religious traditions in the East...but that is not directly related to martial arts. If it is okay, thought I would post some materials that I have found interesting regarding Shingon, Shugendo, Shinto, etc. I am no scholar, but if we start something...perhaps the more learned folks on this forum could cotribute. It would be nice for newbies.

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#163217 - 07/02/05 09:14 PM Re: religion prohibition: shingon and shinto [Re: harlan]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
As long as it is in the context of an academic or philosophical discussion, I (personally) see no problem with it. It is the spirit in which the discussion is framed that matters.

As Kintama points out, some aspects of "religion" are interwoven into the fabric of MA. (BTW, Buddha would turn in his grave if he found out that someone went and created a religion out of his teachings). Shinto is based on animistic spiritual beliefs, and the line between religion and spirituality is a fine distinction.

(Most) MA can be practiced with and without being subsumed by its underlying religious and spiritual influences. However, difficulties can arise when reconciling staunch religious beliefs and convictions, which conflict with such influences.

Because a subject is taboo, it doesn't mean it should be swept under the carpet and ignored. People have a choice to exclude themselves from the discussion and as long as the discussion remains civil, I see no reason to exclude it - unless such discussion is an afront to their religious convictions.

Personally, IMVHO, I believe that the spiritual influences are more important than learning a bunch of physical techniques.

But then again, I reserve the right to be wrong.

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