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#163005 - 07/02/05 08:06 AM Re: defence against you! [Re: MAGr]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

Thanks guys, I will take your advice about actually learning how to do it first and then trying to defend against it.




That approach works with ANYTHING!

Quote:


Ok...so lets say I have sprawled and I am leaned over him, what then? How could you get hits in? It seems to me that if I were to let go the guy would be on top of me. Would I have to grapple, or at least get in the mount position and start hitting?




You have options. Control is everything in grappling. You have to have a dominant position on your opponent. Sprawl at angles to create space so you can get back up. Learn to cross face after you sprawl as well.

One of the best things to do is immediately control his head once you’ve sprawled. You have options from that front headlock position and in my opinion, that’s probably the best thing to work for. You can throw knees, shuck him to one side and take his back, etc. There are even a few chokes from that position. But you have to learn how to do it, then you have to wrestle it a LOT, with different people.

Quote:


Basically I m asking if as soon one person has initiated the grappling thats it, you have to play by his rules now?




Check out Wanderlei Silva vs Sakuraba. Watch Wanderlei sprawl and then proceed to play by his OWN rules. That is a great example of what you can do. You have to wrestle as I’ve said before. Learn some basic positions and counters, then wrestle them. You can do isolation drills to work for specific objectives, such as, you start from the sprawled position. Your partner tries to escape and you simulate knees, while working to take his back or something. If your partner manages to escape, start over. If you manage to take his back, start over. Just an example.

Quote:


I guess if you push him away from you at a suficent distance you can go back into stand up, but that would require a lot of strength seeing as grapplers tend to be big mofos




Not necessarily. Misdirection is another way of doing the same thing. If you get to a front headlock position, you can “shuck” his head to one side and move to the other side. What you do is, begin moving (with the front headlock) toward one side. He will begin to move as well toward that side. As he does so, change positions and shuck him by with the forearm, moving to the opposite side.

Of course, that means you’re going to have to learn the front headlock


-John

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#163006 - 07/02/05 09:00 AM Re: defence against you! [Re: JKogas]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
Mate,
Thank you for taking the time, not only have you answered my questions but you have created 1000 new ones. That is the mark of a good explanation/answer.

I always save informative posts on my computer and this is definetely going in there, so that I can look back when I have the chance to practice and answer the questions I have created. Unfortunately I m going to finish the WC syllabus before I dwelve into anything else, I wish I could do two things at the same time, but I feel that it would be counter productive.

I have one more question though,
Quote:

Sprawl at angles to create space so you can get back up. Learn to cross face after you sprawl as well.



Ok, I understand the what you mean by angles to create space, but what is cross face?

Quote:

Of course, that means you’re going to have to learn the front headlock





I cant wait!

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#163007 - 07/02/05 09:11 AM Re: defence against you! [Re: MAGr]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

,

I have one more question though,
Quote:




Ok, I understand the what you mean by angles to create space, but what is cross face?




The crossface is where you run the inside of your forearm (radial bone) across your opponent’s face (jawline and nose), getting him to look away from you. As his face is forced away, he loses a lot of strength trying to fight you.

Check this photo of a kid performing a cross-face:

http://www.randyswrestling.com/Youthcamp03.04.jpg

Quote:

Of course, that means you’re going to have to learn the front headlock





I cant wait!




Enjoy!


-John

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#163008 - 07/02/05 09:36 AM Re: defence against you! [Re: JKogas]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by JKogas -

Quote:

Another thing if you can't sprawl - dig the underhooks in (getting your arms between his arms and his body). This helps if he's got you pinned against a wall, etc. Sometimes guys will push you against a wall and rip your legs out from under you. Repummeling for underhooks will give you the leverage to help prevent this and move into a better position.




You know, I'm still such a n00b that I never really understood in what situation underhooks would really be useful!

I am always thinking "defend your neck, trap his arms", it does not occur to me to use underhooks to defend against leg attacks.

Thanks for the tip and for goodness sake, open a school in PA.....
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#163009 - 07/04/05 12:48 PM Re: defence against you! [Re: Fletch1]
AikiGhost Offline
Member

Registered: 07/15/04
Posts: 85
Loc: UK
Quote:

One interesting point.

What if you can't sprawl? You are pushed up against a wall or fence or there are other obstacles preventing you from getting your legs behind you hips.




My favourite form against a wall when half sprawled is the "cowcatcher", failing that I pummel for waist controll and go for a takedown on them instead.
_________________________
AikiGhost 4 years MMA Submission Wrestling / MMA (ongoing)

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#163010 - 07/04/05 01:22 PM Re: defence against you! [Re: AikiGhost]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
Also referred to as the Forklift or the most basic application of digging for underhooks.
_________________________
www.brazilianjiujitsunaples.com

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#163011 - 07/04/05 01:38 PM Re: defence against you! [Re: Fletch1]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Guys,

Great posts. There have only been a few threads that I enjoyed as much where the technical aspects were discussed and readily questioned with the right "vibe" in the questions.

I hope the rest of the posts live up to stuff like this.!!! Great

-B

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#163012 - 07/04/05 05:00 PM Re: defence against you! [Re: butterfly]
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
A technique that I like to use;

Say you are too late to sprawl, Trying to fight it is a mistake and going to the guard...well it's just too weak.

I like to pinch my knees together and drive them into my opponents ribs/chest. The fulcrum that is produce enables you to go to one side or the other. You may break your opponents ribs so be careful. The key is to go "jelly". If you tense up no technique will work and you might get mounted.
Regards Ed
_________________________
www.bushidomagazine.com

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#163013 - 07/04/05 05:10 PM Re: defence against you! [Re: Ed Glasheen]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
For all:

I agree that the guard shouldn't be the preferred position on the ground in a real fight. Couple of things to consider though:

1. You may not have the luxury of choice

2. The guard's weakness is "relative" to the person using it.

Folks, just because you shouldn't pull guard in a street fight doesn't mean that you shouldn't train it. Just when you think you'll never need something is the precise time in which you will. You work the guard a great deal simply BECAUSE it's a bad place to be in a fight.

Does that make any sense?


-John

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#163014 - 07/04/05 05:17 PM Re: defence against you! [Re: JKogas]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
It makes a lot of sense.
We ahev moves in my art that are not very effective, but sometimes it can be your only option, so you better make it effective if you find yourself in that situation.
Did I understand right?

Also, could you explain under hooks. Are your arms going to the armpits underneeth or are they strikes?

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