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#163015 - 07/04/05 07:41 PM Re: defence against you! [Re: MAGr]
JKogas Offline

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina

Did I understand right?

Seems like you did. The guard is where you are on the bottom against an opponent. However, it's the BEST position on the bottom in which you could find yourself. Against someone bigger, stronger and more skilled, it IS highly likely that you could find yourself HAVING to fight from that position. Therefore it would be wise to have as much game from there as possible, right?


Also, could you explain under hooks. Are your arms going to the armpits underneeth or are they strikes?

It isn't a strike. It's a method of establishing inside control in the clinch whereby you can dominate position. All kinds of good things happen when you control position.

When you have an underhook, you are generally facing your opponent and have your arm on the inside of his with your hand latching onto his shoulder (deltoid muscle). Your head is in the "pocket" (his collar bone and jawline area) and your lead leg is beteen his, splitting him. It isn't a "static" position however. It's very dynamic and you're working as soon as you have the underhook position.


Edited by JKogas (07/05/05 09:17 PM)

#163016 - 07/04/05 08:49 PM Re: defence against you! [Re: JKogas]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
To build upon what JKogas said, the underhooks are a path to the back by way of going under the arms. Having an underhook (or two) means your opponent has to counter with a wrap/ whizzer to prevent you ducking under and getting behind him.

A single underhook with your head in the pocket of his neck is also an effective way to occupy and maintain a dominant flank position from which it is easier and safer to strike.

Edited by Fletch1 (07/04/05 08:50 PM)

#163017 - 07/05/05 07:09 AM Re: defence against you! [Re: JKogas]
AikiGhost Offline

Registered: 07/15/04
Posts: 85
Loc: UK

Folks, just because you shouldn't pull guard in a street fight doesn't mean that you shouldn't train it. Just when you think you'll never need something is the precise time in which you will. You work the guard a great deal simply BECAUSE it's a bad place to be in a fight.

Does that make any sense?


I agree, Id even go so far as to say if you dont have a good guard game you are in serious trouble if you dont hold total dominance from start to finish of a match, to me good guard work and shrimping is just as important as a good top game.
AikiGhost 4 years MMA Submission Wrestling / MMA (ongoing)

#163018 - 07/09/05 06:50 AM Re: defence against you! [Re: MAGr]
BigRod Offline
Does it all

Registered: 02/10/05
Posts: 736
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Beating the shoot

Definately learn to sprawl.

Keep as much distance as possible, that gives you more time to react to his shoot. Plus it makes his shoot harder because it has to come from further away.

Use your footwork to keep, change direction. Dont just stand there being an easy target. DON'T move into him.

If you know he's going to try and take you down, use feints and set him up. Let him think you're open for a takedown, then catch him with a knee on his way in.

Dont forget that takedowns can come from a clinch. Those are harder to defend, much harder.

After the sprawl....

If you get a sprawl, and you get the underhooks in, start looking for knees, they're almost always there, especially if you're not dealing with elite MMA/wrestlers fighters. Most guys have a lot of bad habits when shooting in that you can exploit.

Learn the guillitene (sp?) choke. Sooo many people leave themselves open for this. Especially wrestlers, they aren't used to dealing with this. Again, look for it after the sprawl. In fact, look for it whether you sprawl or not. If the neck is open (even when you're being taken down), go for the choke. Be sure to put him in your gaurd as you fall to the ground, otherwise you wont get the choke.

Learn the crossface.

After you (successfully) sprawl, get an over/under hook grasp. Take a turning step back (like a directional change step in kata), use the arm that has the overhook to pull him down, and the arm that has the underhook to turn him over. I've heard this move called several names, I know it as the cow catcher.

The stuff I described are all high % counters and strikes. You get good at the above, you'll be able to fend off takedowns (from outside shots) fairly well. Beating takedowns from the clinch however, requires qualified instruction.

There's more, but a guy can only type so much. Watch some UFC/KOTC/PRIDE fights, and see how they counter takedowns.

OH!! Lastly, start learning takedowns yourself. That will give you sooo much insight. Learning how to do the movements will give you a greater understanding of how to counter the movements.

#163019 - 07/09/05 10:16 AM Re: defence against you! [Re: Fletch1]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
*MattJ scribbling notes furiously*

Underhooks to duck-under to gain the opponent's back


I seem to be getting more McMA than MMA.
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

#163020 - 07/09/05 10:29 AM Re: defence against you! [Re: MattJ]
JKogas Offline

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
I love using an underhook to a near-side duck under. That's one of my favorites. The duck under really seems to be underrated. It's probably the most high percentage tactic for (I hate to say it), STREET fighting. It's ridiculously easy to set up from a bicep tie or an underhook.

I also like using an underhook to a high crotch, but that's another thing. Perhaps we should start a thread about the wonders of the underhook.


#163021 - 07/09/05 03:22 PM Re: defence against you! [Re: JKogas]
BigRod Offline
Does it all

Registered: 02/10/05
Posts: 736
Loc: Atlanta, GA

If you think you're opponent may try to take you down, don't over commit to your punches. Throw 2-3 punches and back off. If you get to a point where you're moving in on your opponent throwing punches, he'll move back for 2-3 steps, stop, level change, and shoot . You will be coming into him, unable to stop your forward motion because you over commited. (I love it when that happens )

Watch Chuck Liddel fight, he's a master of this. He never pursues his opponents until after he's landed the big punch and his opponent reeling.

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