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#162429 - 06/30/05 08:27 AM Jujitsu Take Downs?
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
While training last night Shihan had us try and do take downs from the standing position. Either we had to shoot for the leg or body style pick up & dump your uke. Some of the guys were trying the take downs from the clinch and other from the shoot. I was being neck cranked way to much because when I went for the shoot my head/face was downward instead of looking up, so I was told. OK I'll try to face up more but my big question for all the jujitsu guys that shoot, do you shoot to the outside (your right shoulder to ukes right leg)or do you feel more comfortable going straight in for the pick up & dump? Or please tell me how you take your opponent down from the standing position to grappling.
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The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

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#162430 - 06/30/05 08:39 AM Re: Jujitsu Take Downs? [Re: schanne]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Clinch O-Goshi, Uki-Goshi, Osoto-Gari, shoulder lock takedown and some others. That's just the white belt syllabus. The takedowns are basically the same as Judo takedowns in my style of JJ but modified to work with no Gi.
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#162431 - 06/30/05 08:42 AM Re: Jujitsu Take Downs? [Re: Leo_E_49]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
What take down do you use the most, we train with gi in our regular classes but the competition team guys train with out their gi's.
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The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

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#162432 - 06/30/05 08:46 AM Re: Jujitsu Take Downs? [Re: schanne]
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
I do not like single or double leg take downs for the exact reason you mentioned...exposes your neck and it is easy to counter. Worst case you get the guard which is not a dominate position.
The takdowns that I do are situational. If my opponent is upright I like yoko otoshi and other variations. If my opponent is crouch, I like a throw we do that secures the neck and or belt and kicks over your opponent.Similar to Judo's Sumi-geshi. I do not advocate throws or takedowns that expose your back or neck. In any takedown your goal is to get the dominate position. The guard is not a dominate postion.
Ed
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#162433 - 06/30/05 08:53 AM Re: Jujitsu Take Downs? [Re: schanne]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Actually, I think the 'specialty' of my Dojo in Scotland is lock-takedowns. It's very common to see someone put into a hammerlock then taken down with a sweep from that position, although other throws are trained. In Singapore, the favourite throw is probably Osoto-Gari but as you advance rank, of course, the throws get more complex. We train much more on throws rather than standing locks here.
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#162434 - 06/30/05 09:03 AM Re: Jujitsu Take Downs? [Re: Ed Glasheen]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Thanks Ed, Leo ....need to work more on my yoko otoshi to perfect my take down better.....good stuff.
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The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

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#162435 - 06/30/05 09:55 AM Re: Jujitsu Take Downs? [Re: Leo_E_49]
Legend of the Hungry Wolf Offline
Member

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 221
"The takedowns are basically the same as Judo takedowns in my style of JJ but modified to work with no Gi."- Leo_E_49

thats the way to go.
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#162436 - 06/30/05 11:11 AM Re: Jujitsu Take Downs? [Re: Legend of the Hungry Wolf]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
I suppose if your going to compete but just for the regular guy that goes to class and just wants to learn Jujitsu, plus I never had to fight a guy with out his clothes on, well there was this one time...never mind
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The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

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#162437 - 06/30/05 03:26 PM Re: Jujitsu Take Downs? [Re: schanne]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
The twist in SD throws using my style of JJ which makes them different from Judo is that we do not rely on the strength of the Gi material or the lapel for throwing. This means I can throw someone wearing a t-shirt as easily as someone wearing a Gi. It's body-grappling, similar to wrestling but with a Japanese flair to it.
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#162438 - 07/01/05 02:04 PM Re: Jujitsu Take Downs? [Re: Leo_E_49]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
You must do a lot of waist & hip throws?
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The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

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#162439 - 07/02/05 02:50 AM Re: Jujitsu Take Downs? [Re: schanne]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Yes, and shoulder throws and wrist throws and sacrifice throws and sweeps. In my Singapore Dojo we even train wrestling style takedowns. In fact, pretty much if you can imagine it, we train it. Although I'm only a white belt, I already know about a dozen takedowns. I've learned around 6 locks to finish off the takedown and I've trained all of these techniques from the standard Judo sparring grip, from a punch to the face or gut and from strangulation from infront and behind.

A lot of the takedowns involve locks before the takedown. So you might put someone in a standing back-hammer lock and then place their face into the pavement. Not a pretty technique, I assure you. Last time I had that done to me I had a nasty mat burn along my eyebrow which stung for about a week.

It's a lot of fun and a little dangerous sometimes. After all, unlike Judo, Jujutsu has all the nasty parts left in. This is why some (but not all) techniques must be trained with a co-operating opponent.
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#162440 - 07/02/05 11:19 AM Re: Jujitsu Take Downs? [Re: schanne]
BigRod Offline
Does it all

Registered: 02/10/05
Posts: 736
Loc: Atlanta, GA
I use a mixture. I prefer trying takedowns from the clinch, because I'm not that good at outside shots yet.

Here's a few tips....

Make sure you have proper technique, and practice till you think you've mastered it, and then practice it some more.

An outside shot doesnt have to (and shouldn't) be taken from 3 feet away. Get closer and make that shot as short as possible.

The most important part of the takedown, and I cannot emphasis this enough, is the set up, bar none. Disguise your shots with punches; unbalance your opponent, use angles, combinations, don't shoot unless he's moving into you...these things are the key to success with takedowns.

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#162441 - 07/02/05 11:36 AM Re: Jujitsu Take Downs? [Re: BigRod]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
I'm with you BigRod. I am too much of a chicken to try outside shots, I usually work from the clinch (or reversal if I screwed up )
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#162442 - 07/06/05 03:08 AM Re: Jujitsu Take Downs? [Re: MattJ]
Martin Offline
Member

Registered: 05/07/05
Posts: 31
Loc: Yuba City, CA.
i've only been taking danzan ryu jj for six weeks. so far it has been all about not getting on the ground. wrist locks, arm bars, figure 4 locks. the list goes on. i suppose what i'm trying to say, is that when uki advances on me, that gives me time to settle my mind and relax into "go no sen". remember, we are traing for the one in a thousand chance that our training will come in handy, or, just for fun (why, i wouldn't know), anyhow, stand up, let uki advance, counter his attack (it's almost certain the bad guy has no training in fighting technique and is in for a rude awakening), lock him up and put him down.

really, why do you want to shoot? (if i am reading you right)

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#162443 - 07/06/05 09:53 AM Re: Jujitsu Take Downs? [Re: schanne]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
As mentioned earlier I like a situational take down, I like to get them defending a high attack weather its a high punch or trying to defend against clinch/seionage, then I'll shoot for the single or double leg takedown or duck under and suflex body slam.

Or when they have covered from a three punuch or kick combination then I sweep or pickup a leg and drive them to the ground. The safest takedown for me is when they are trying to avoid/run from a hand/kicking attack and their backs at an angle away or they are looking over their shoulder high cover. Then the double leg diving tackle mounting his back is what I like to do.


Edited by Neko456 (07/06/05 10:04 AM)
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#162444 - 07/10/05 04:04 AM Re: Jujitsu Take Downs? [Re: Neko456]
Martin Offline
Member

Registered: 05/07/05
Posts: 31
Loc: Yuba City, CA.
it sounds like you excell at mat work. myself, i do my best to stay on my feet. unless you run into another trained fighter, and trained better than you -- once you apply your standing technique, homeboy wants nothing more than to gather up his broken a** and crawl home. why get dirty?

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#162445 - 07/14/05 06:11 PM Re: Jujitsu Take Downs? [Re: schanne]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
I can work from either but I prefer the clinch. They are already in close so using your body as a fulcrum for a hip toss or what have you. Of course as pointed out, if you are fighting another skilled fighter this may be more difficult. I know you don't have to be strong to hip toss or sweep or what have you but in my case I have found it to be an asset especially when you are tussling for an advantage when you are in the clinch.

Shooting for the leg take down, I like it but must always remember not to put the head down and to shoot in and lower your body with your legs to come in and under (back staight/head up). This way if you can't get the legs wrapped up at least you may be able to maneuver around them and grab them from behind or just evade.

If they get a good hold of me and we have to go down then let's go down but you are on the bottom. My impact won't be as near as bad as yours as you will have to contend with the ground plus my 200 lb frame landing on you. Then while you are stunned I'd better get busy and tie you up (class) or immobilize you (real life - elbow smashes, etc).

Heavier clothing can certainly be an asset to grab on to but I don't rely on it. If it is there sure why not use it but then I've been in cases where I have and got fingers stuck in the clothing when doing a take down that hurt me more then it hurt them.

Also nice is shoot in head to head and get into a short clinch and then back out quickly and hopefully you were quick enough or smart enough to get a good hold of a hand, wrist or arm that you can twist while turning your body into them to get a good throw on them and where you can continue to keep this appendage through the throw to finish them off with an arm bar or wrist lock and/or bringing your knee down on them.

So many fun things to do that is only limited by ones imagination.
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