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#162331 - 06/30/05 02:01 PM Re: Open Mat policy [Re: Fletch1]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Fletch and JKogas,

I don't want to subvert the thread but this touches on all MAs and is connected to your point about "drawing the line."

At my age, 40 this year, with a nod to John, I have the same problem with injuries and not wanting more of them.

I am basically a standup guy, and the style of karate that I practice emphasizes a lot of impact. Much more than some I was acquainted we had several former boxers and two guys who had studied Muay Thai stay with us for several years.

However, this brought up two things: I have been sent to the hospital twice through sparring; I have accidentally sent two other people to the hospital. We have less liability issues concerning injuries since most students are Japanese and just don't sue...but I am concerned with the situation. Injuries shouldn't happen and should be reduced as much as possible.

I know of at least three incidents that have lead to surgery after the fact...including my own.

I have also known potential students to join up and leave after one class noting the structure of actually having to hit and receive hits in practice.

I have now tried to change how I would organize some of these practices to reduce potential injuries as John has noted.

However, if one considers MAs universal, then where do you draw the line on teaching someone who may need or want instruction, but just isn't mentally prepared for the physical side? Do you send that person way or try to help them?

Are MAs then universal? The sporting elements of BJJ, Judo, Boxing, and Muay Thai have some tremenous advantages on teaching timing and entrance into ranges because of competition and the actual use of techniques against resisting opponents.

However, what if someone wants to learn, but not to the same extent? And because of the competitive nature of these arts, not everyone, despite the same education, will be able to do the techniques as well as the top level atheletes. In other words, there will always be a do you accomodate the weak link? And improve his ability?

This is also, I think, part of the line.

Warmest regards,


#162332 - 06/30/05 02:12 PM Re: Open Mat policy [Re: Neko456]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Yeah sometimes you do have people that stop by and like to create a scene, most of them have usually been drinking or worse. In the last ten years I think we only had to escort two people out. I'll tell you something, it takes big ones or a person is half crazy to walk in a karate school and challenge someone, think about that.
The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

#162333 - 06/30/05 04:58 PM Re: Open Mat policy [Re: schanne]
JKogas Offline

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Actually I've had some great experiences rolling with guys. Normally it's been wrestlers and, I've always jumped at the chance to do that. Without a doubt it has helped my game EXTREMELY! Going against those guys has done more for my game (no gi) than anything else.

I should clarify myself a little to say that, "going all out" meant a roll of two-three minutes per with anyone that wanted to. I never "made" anyone roll that DIDN'T want to and it was all done (as it continues to be) in a professional manner.


#162334 - 07/01/05 01:21 PM Re: Open Mat policy [Re: JKogas]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I've had wrestler want to compare and roll as you say after class but not during class people are paying dues to be taught not watch the teacher learn something new or submit a stranger.

In the wrestling matches I'll wrestle them I'll show the difference they feel comfortable in the near pin, until you show them that they can be submitted from the botton, with one of your shoulders touchng the mat. Their sensitivity, balance and power is awesome, but their mind set to ride and control and pin makes them 1 tracked.

Learning in or outside the class is exciting. But it should not be a challenge match.

Edited by Neko456 (07/01/05 01:22 PM)

#162335 - 07/01/05 02:19 PM Re: Open Mat policy [Re: JKogas]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Jkogas, good post and just wanted to ask you, do you find that most of your top grappling fighters at your dojo that have wrestled in school have a clear advantage over the regular Joe that is virgin to wrestling? I can tell soon as they hit the mat for their first class. If you have been wrestling for years it only take a little while to teach these guys how to change their mind set from the pin to submission style grappling. So if it means anything to you guys that want to get into grappling but are still in school take up wrestling to form a good grappling/jujitsu base...just my opinion.
The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

#162336 - 07/01/05 02:50 PM Re: Open Mat policy [Re: schanne]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA

I think you are right. The buddy of mine who introduced me to my current BJJ dojo was a heavy weight high school wrestler and was one of the top guys on his squad. I believe he 21 now.

When he joined BJJ, the dude went from blue to purple in less than a year and won, I think three first places in the local BJJ tournaments at blue belt, at that time. The guy's spider guard is amazing. 2 and 1/2 years to purple is really, really good.



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