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#161251 - 06/28/05 04:25 AM Transitions in dans
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
For the high ranks, what was the transition like between 3rd and 4th, 4th and 5th, etc.? I've been at 2nd Dan for a while, and I'm starting to feel the transition into 3rd I think. How do things change - if at all?
Thanks.
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Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#161252 - 06/28/05 04:48 AM Re: Transitions in dans [Re: SANCHIN31]
still wadowoman Offline
Improved beefier techno-prat

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 3420
Loc: Residence:UK- Heart:Md, USA
Sanchin,
I hold the same rank as you so this is an interesting question to me. How long have you been a second dan and how do you feel differently now that you "feel the transition into third"?
Sharon
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#161253 - 06/28/05 05:02 AM Re: Transitions in dans [Re: SANCHIN31]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Sanchin31,

Same question as Wadowoman. Curious is all.

-B

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#161254 - 06/28/05 05:35 AM Re: Transitions in dans [Re: still wadowoman]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
I feel the difference from the way I spar/fight and mostly from the way I teach.I made nidan in Feb05.
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#161255 - 06/28/05 05:46 AM Re: Transitions in dans [Re: SANCHIN31]
still wadowoman Offline
Improved beefier techno-prat

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 3420
Loc: Residence:UK- Heart:Md, USA
I passed shodan in April 2001 and nidan in April 2003. I feel that my technical ability and understanding has improved since my last grading but not sure I feel the transition you speak of.

It will be interesting to hear from some seniors.
Sharon
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#161256 - 06/28/05 06:16 AM Re: Transitions in dans [Re: SANCHIN31]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Sanchin,

Interesting. I made sho-dan in 1995 (and still am a sho-dan) in the style of karate I currently practice. And I have practiced this style of karate for roughly 15 years. So take this as limited answer from someone of no great rank and someone who has never considered himself a fighter.

In the past, I would practice at times six-seven days a week for 3-5 hours a day (not always, but more than occasionally)...that was until I got married and tried to find more of a balance recognizing that MAs were part of, not exclusive to, my life. I had practiced other stuff previously and still do, concurrently...and I think there have been climbs and plateaus in my understanding ever since I got into the Martial Arts over 20 years ago.

What I thought I knew, I recognize I didn't. And am woefully aware of my ignorance, but also understand that I can only accomplish so much in my spare time.

Funny thing, I still come back to the basics of karate. I am fascinated more by the fact that I still try to tweak techniques for better utility...just a right straight punch. I throw a better right and left now, and understand why I do so more than I did 10 or even 5 years ago.

I can do a ton more pushups...but that is only excercise and can be obtained by anyone who does pushups regularly.

However, I can see the mistakes of beginners more easily now, since I committed them myself and am trying to carve them away from my abilities and save some time for those below me, even though they only vaguely understand what I am trying to tell them. That to do this the hard slow way, will make you better and faster in the long run....instead of just copying incorrectly the look of a technique. So, I have to explain more, especially for an American audience when I compare this to Japanese students. This helps me realize the conceptual underpinnings of technique so that I ensure proper mechanice get passed along, instead of an incomplete facsimilie.

I see the weaknesses of myself and others more easily and try to focus on correcting them.

I spar more intelligently now, when comparing the physicality of an engagement in my youth.

What I am saying, is that this happens regardless of rank. And I try not so much to compare my abilities with those around me (which I used to do) except to make adjustments in my own training and correct bad habits....I came to the realization that I am not competing with others, just improving myself. That was a hard lesson. So....there are those that are better than me, and there are those that are less able than me. I recognize that. But we are all on the same road.

I guess this is a ramble, but what I am trying to say is that if you do anything long enough with enjoyment and earnest study, you will get better. Now, how you use that attainment might be different, but I don't think this betterment lies soley in the pervue of higher dans.

I say this because I have seen 3rd Dans that are 16 years old, and I have seen 3-4th dans that have practiced only 8 years, and they may or may not have the same appreciation of someone practicing 30 years, but who doesn't claim any rank. I just want to practice.

Just a few thoughts from someone who couldn't sleep.

-B

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#161257 - 06/28/05 06:31 AM Re: Transitions in dans [Re: butterfly]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
butterfly,
I agree with your point,I guess I just relate dan rank to legitimate experience and rank.I'm not really looking to hear from teenage Hanshi's!
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Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#161258 - 06/28/05 06:53 AM Re: Transitions in dans [Re: SANCHIN31]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Sanchin31,

Point well taken. You are lucky to be involved in a good, honest, legitimate style where rank generally equals ability and knowledge.

Oh, and I don't consider myself any better than some of those teenagers, just that rank was one of those things that was not a priority at my dojo after sho-dan, and I have never really considered it.

So it always seemed funny to me to meet someone in a MA context and have them ask my rank...and eagerly relate theirs.

-B

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#161259 - 06/28/05 06:56 AM Re: Transitions in dans [Re: SANCHIN31]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
I obtained shodan in the early 90s in shito ryu and shukokai, and havent graded since I found shorin ryu last year, im currently an orange belt and looking to take my shodan in shorin ryu in a year or 2.(as well as my green and brown belt), for some reason those grades mean more to me than other colours!

I personally view 3rd dan as a good grade to run a dojo, below is fine but i think the maturity of 3rd dan is better, its hard to define really.

If we look at 'typical' training times for progression - min 3/4 years to shodan, min 5/6 to nidan and min 9/10 to sandan, I think its fair to say that 10 years constant practise is a good guideline for running a dojo, but in somepeoples mind not for sandan?

I also think 10 years is a good guideline to really begin understanding the core principles in your chosen art, and sandan to me is a senior grade blackbelt.

3rd dan at under 30 years old I struggle to understand, from a life expierience perspective.

Sorry its not from personal expierience re the grade but i have trained for 20 years now, i actually view the progression to sandan as similair to that of white - green and brown to black - a big jump in my mind.

I do like to put things in boxes, and hope that you guys can see my view on this. But grade after all is a personal thing, and is different within each dojo and for each person, as I have recently accepted is how it should be (to a point!).

I have actually begun to start to see the importance of 'titles' ie renshi, shihan, kyoshi etc etc, I intend to research these a little more but for me they would have more significance than perhaps the dan grades. Again this matches my view that Sempai and sensei actually mean more than grade alone.

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#161260 - 06/28/05 07:20 AM Re: Transitions in dans [Re: SANCHIN31]
nenipp Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
If I understand your question correctly you're not asking about ranks/dans really, more like the transformation that happens when you grow as a karateka?
In my case, the input is too small nowadays, for any development worth mentioning but as Butterfly said, the balance in my life is, well, more balanced
I used to hold 2.dan before I changed to the style I currently am practising, so I have no experiance of the higher dans of course.

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