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#349803 - 07/08/07 08:57 AM Re: Police Interrogation [Re: Midnightcrawler]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia

G'day MC
Please don't take this as me having a go on you, it's late at night here and as usual I will probably come across harsh. But you know me, I do not intend it to come across as such I'm just arguing my point not arguing with you ( or any one else)


Speeding accounts for around 50 fatalities on Queensland roads each year.

so you can see speed does in deed kill on the black top

it is true that the other factors you mentioned contribute towards road fatalities and I don't suggest that speed is the only cause or even that it is the main cause. but are fatality with these other factors usually occur because the speed traveling was not suitable to the conditions, or situation. Slow Drivers.... being frustrated is not an excuse to break the law.

please watch the clip below:

http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/resources/file/eb6d2f00d77fddb/stopping_distances_tvc.mpg

and watch this clip which is a re-enactment of an actual accident. imagine you are the driver

http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/resources/file/eb633405fd42f0f/Wmv_rs_pram_1_small.wmv

and then this one
http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/resources/file/eb633905fd609b9/Wmv_rs_pram_2_small.wmv

we often hear "the police and the authorities are just making money out of speeding offenses."

They do make revenue out of it. that revenue is then injected back into the system to help pay for road safety and to subsidise police activities.

Maybe we should ask the loved ones of the 50 odd Queenslanders who died in the last 12 months as a direct consequence of a driver traveling over the speed limit whether speeding is just a revenue earner for the powers. I wonder if they will share the same view,

Statistics show that accidents have decreased in areas that have posted speed cameras, And that the no one cause of fatal accidents was traveling faster then appropriate for the conditions or the experience of the driver.

now my post was a pun
"whether on the black top or the dance floor

SPEED KILLS "

meaning whether it's speeding in a car or taking speed, the drug, on the dance floor, both are dangerous and stupid ( and potentially fatal). I was hoping a message hidden in little humour/riddle might deliver a message that I believe can save lives.

Back to the black top kind of speed

The fact, it is the law, people can say all they wish to justify traveling a few k's over the posted speed limited, but in the end they are breaking the law, and potentially putting another persons life at risk along with their own. That doesn't sound very much like self defence now does it.
_____________
you don't need to read below here if you don't wish to I'm just providing some supporting facts

some more "Facts" for you, just to drive the point home ( under the speed limit of course )

-study from road safety experts at the Monash University Accident Research Centre (MUARC) in 2003, has confirmed that increased enforcement of speed limits has contributed to a massive drop in the road toll

In areas where there were increased levels of speed camera enforcement, the risk of death from casualty
crashes was reduced by 41 per cent in the following month.

These findings were supported by a new international study from the University of Toronto, which found that drivers convicted of a traffic offence were 35 per cent less likely to have a fatal crash in the month following the conviction compared to drivers who did not get fined.

-Excessive speed is involved in at least one-third of fatal accidents according to a NSW Road Traffic Authority report

-Speeding is a major factor in serious and fatal traffic crashes. Speeding is not just driving faster than the posted speed limit. It is also driving too fast for the prevailing weather, light, traffic and road conditions without full regard for the vehicle condition and driver skills and experience.
WA Police Service, Road Safety Section Speeding brochure (2002).

-Figures show that in 2001, speed was a factor in 35% of fatal crashes, 22% of police-attended hospitalisation crashes, 13% of police-attended crashes where victims required medical attention, and 22% of police-attended property-damage-only crashes occurring on WA roads.
Legge, M., Gavin, A.L., Cercarelli, L.R. (2004) Reported Road Crashes in WA 2001. Road Safety Council of Western Australia.

-During 2001, speed was a factor in 57% of motorcyclist fatalities and 41% of driver fatalities.
Legge, M., Gavin, A.L., Cercarelli, L.R. (2004) Reported Road Crashes in WA 2001. Road Safety Council of Western Australia.

-Males continue to be over-represented in speed-related fatalities in Western Australia. In 2001, 83% of speed-related fatalities were male, with many (42%) in the 17-24 year old age group.
Legge, M., Gavin, A.L., Cercarelli, L.R. (2004) Reported Road Crashes in WA 2001. Road Safety Council of Western Australia.

-In 2001, females represented 17% of speed-related crash fatalities in Western Australia. The highest risk age groups were 30-39 years (42%), 40-49 years (17%), 12-16 years (17%) and 70+ years (17%).
Legge, M., Gavin, A.L., Cercarelli, L.R. (2004) Reported Road Crashes in WA 2001. Road Safety Council of Western Australia.

-In 2001, more speed-related fatal crashes occurred in rural Western Australia than in the metropolitan area (57% rural versus 43% metropolitan).
Legge, M., Gavin, A.L., Cercarelli, L.R. (2004) Reported Road Crashes in WA 2001. Road Safety Council of Western Australia.

-In 2001, 70% of all police-attended speed-related hospitalisation crashes in Western Australia occurred in 60 km/h and 70 km/h speed zones. Thirty five percent of all speed-related fatal crashes occurred in 60 km/h and 70 km/h speed zones.
Legge, M., Gavin, A.L., Cercarelli, L.R. (2004) Reported Road Crashes in WA

-2001. Road Safety Council of Western Australia.
The risk of being involved in a crash resulting in injury in a 60 km/h speed zone is doubled with every 5 km/h increase in driving speed above the limit. This means travelling at 65 km/h in a 60 km/h speed zone doubles the chance of having a crash resulting in injury, travelling at 70 km/h increases the chance of crashing by four times.
Kloeden, C.N., McLean, A.J., & Ponte, G. (1997). Travelling Speed and Risk of Crash Involvement; University of Adelaide, South Australia.

-The effect of speeding is similar to that of drink-driving. For example, driving five km/h over the speed limit in a 60km/h zone increases the chance of crashing to a level equivalent to driving with a blood alcohol content (BAC) of 0.05gm%. Driving 10km/h over the limit in a 60km/h zone is equivalent to driving with a BAC of 0.10gm%.
Kloeden, C.N., McLean, A.J., & Ponte, G. (1997). Travelling Speed and Risk of Crash Involvement; University of Adelaide, South Australia.

-It is anticipated that (based on results in other Australian states following the introduction of 50km/h speed limit) a reduction in casualty crashes on local roads of between 12 and 22% could be expected in WA.
Arriving Safely: Road Safety Strategy for Western Australia 2003 2007 (2003). Road Safety Council of Western Australia.

-A full state-wide evaluation of the Western Australian 50 km/h initiative is planned. Preliminary results from speed surveys show a small but consistent reduction in speeds across the majority of the urban road network.
Arriving Safely: Road Safety Strategy for Western Australia 2003 2007 (2003). Road Safety Council of Western Australia.

-Research exploring the potential economic costs and benefits to changes to speed limits on rural roads has found no economic justification for increasing speed limits on Western Australian roads. For all scenarios and all vehicle types increases in speed limits would result in increases in road trauma thereby countering any travel time saving benefits.
Cameron, M. Potential benefits and costs of speed changes on rural roads (2003). Australian Transport Safety Bureau.

end of argument


Edited by drgndrew (07/08/07 09:37 AM)
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#349804 - 07/08/07 09:41 AM Re: Police Interrogation [Re: drgndrew]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
PS sorry for the Thread HIjack

and may I add good post excon, the various aspects of aftermath are rarely adequately covered in a SD syllabus, other then an honourable mention occasionally.

It is imperative that you know your rights under the law in the area you find yourself in.
_________________________
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Bushi Dojos Self Protection
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#349805 - 07/08/07 10:21 AM Re: Police Interrogation [Re: drgndrew]
shadowkahn Offline
anti-stupid crusader

Registered: 01/03/07
Posts: 234
Quote:


Speeding accounts for around 50 fatalities on Queensland roads each year.





Speeding might be *blamed* for 50 fatalities each year. However, just as video games are *blamed* falsely for causing school shootings, speed itself does not kill. If SPEED killed, then race car drivers would die as soon as they exceeded the local speed limits. Speed does not kill. Crashes kill.

If you look at the statistics, in an average year there are fewer traffic fatalities per vehicle mile on the speed-limitless sections of the Autobahn than there are on US interstates. Drivers on the Autobahn routinely travel faster than 100mph (160kph), far faster than on the US interstates, and yet they die at a lower rate. How can this be, if speed kills? The answer's pretty simple. Germany does a much better job of training and testing its drivers. You have to know how to control the car if you want a license in Germany. Meanwhile the US is happy if you can just parallel park.

And when you think about it further, speed limits are silly anyway. We're saying a semi and a ferrari are both incredibly dangerous at 66mph, but quite safe at 65mph. It's not hard to figure out that the ferrari can be driven at a much higher speed than the semi and still have better turning and stopping ability than the semi.

Clearly, speed does not kill. Crappy driver training and licensing kills. So rather than have a bunch of cops out there writing BS tickets, maybe we should have them looking for actual dangerous drivers or better yet, have them working on solving real crimes.
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#349806 - 07/08/07 09:35 PM Re: Police Interrogation [Re: shadowkahn]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
Quote:

Speeding might be *blamed* for 50 fatalities each year. However, just as video games are *blamed* falsely for causing school shootings, speed itself does not kill. If SPEED killed, then race car drivers would die as soon as they exceeded the local speed limits. Speed does not kill. Crashes kill.




I have provided supporting evidence that there is a significant relationship between speeding and road fatalities ( a fraction of what is available). the 50 deaths per year have been directly contributed to speeding, we have considerable more deaths that may have speed as a factor but the contributing factor is deemed as more influential to the outcome ( for eg drink driving, driver fatigue ).

to pretend that speed is simply "blamed" as a form of scape goat is being simply naive.
"Speed doesn't kill crashes do",
what a load of crap thats like saying the bullet didn't kill it was the shredding of the vital organs that kills, pushing someone of a clive doesn't kill it's the impact at the bottom that kills.

The evidence is clear as is the physics, the faster you go the longer it takes to stop - result - there is greater chance of hitting an object or person ( maybe someone's child) you have much less time to react -see the vids I posted

The faster you travel the greater the impact of a collision- result - you will cause more damage to the object or person ( maybe your child)

simple physics provide scientific evidence of the effect of speeding thanks to me newton.

There are, of course, other factors that contribute to crashes. i am not denying that drink driving for eg in Australia we also have a high prevalence of death caused by driver fatigue. see unlike europe or the US we often have to travel 100's of km's between towns we are a very spacious country.

Quote:

If you look at the statistics, in an average year there are fewer traffic fatalities per vehicle mile on the speed-limitless sections of the Autobahn than there are on US interstates. Drivers on the Autobahn routinely travel faster than 100mph (160kph), far faster than on the US interstates, and yet they die at a lower rate.




I was waiting for someone to bring this up, yes There are more fatalities at lower speed zones: for eg there are more fatalities in 60 -70 Km/h limited zones then on our 110 km/h freeways.
"How can this be, if speed kills?" you ask
well for one thing there are 1 000's of more people within these zones, there will be 1000's of more cars on the road in 60 km/h zones, makes sense seeing these are the urban and suburban areas. if there are significant higher no of people then it applies that there will be a higher number of fatalities ( that applies to any fatality a town of 100000 people will have more heart attacks then a town of 3000.)

Of the fatalities that occur in these lower speed zones many ( at least 30%) involved vehicles traveling above the posted speed limit. ie they were speeding.

so other then the considerable difference between the number of people in these zones what other factors come into play.

you mention the difference between the no of deaths on the autobahn compared to the US highways. well for one thing you mentioned "the unlimited sections of the autobahn" I imaging that the section of the road is designed for speed, i imagine that section is very well maintained. why isn't all the autobahn limitless speed.

The US highway system is a hell of a lot greater in length then the autobahns it would be impossible to maintain the entire highway system to the same level as the limitless section of the autobahn. that might be why they have placed a speed limit on them, to indicate the max speed appropriate for the road.

Finally when traveling at greater speed a driver will be more vigilant and cautious, infact they will probably drive "safer" then at lower speeds. this is because there is a danger with traveling at these kind of speeds and when ever there is a danger present the human ( and any other animal) will be more vigilant and aware then normal.

so yes I agree crappie drivers, crappie conditions, crappie cars, and a boot full of other things contribute to road deaths. however SO DOES SPEED to say that speed doesn't kill is irresponsible and naive.

Speed limits are generally determined to keep motorists safe for the conditions of the road or environment. yes I will admit that at times it appears that some areas seem to be limited to "trap drivers" but in general you will find that these places have a history of MVA's.

I could go on and on but I won't.

If speed doesn't kill then would you agree that all speed limits should be removed and people allowed to travel at any speed that desire, Outside of schools, in suburban streets etc around your house and around your childs playground.

And could you provide some actual evidence as to your autobahn and US highway comparison. please.

if you travel at more then the speed limit you are breaking the law and according to the previous Pope (John Paul) you are also sinning.
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
Toowoomba Self Defence

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#349807 - 07/08/07 09:57 PM Re: Police Interrogation [Re: drgndrew]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Guys, I have split this thread from Midnightcrawler's post so we can keep this thread on topic re: interrogation. Please direct all the traffic responses to the new thread here:

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...6a#Post15950151
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#349808 - 07/09/07 01:05 AM Re: Police Interrogation [Re: MattJ]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
good call MattJ,
i've posted my final post on the subject there.
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
Toowoomba Self Defence

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#349809 - 10/07/07 09:21 PM Re: Police Interrogation [Re: McSensei]
karate_popo Offline
Member

Registered: 09/27/07
Posts: 154
Loc: NYC
ok this is the law, i have my BS in criminal justice.. if it was self-defense, then you will not go to jail, but i am always taught by my sensie, who has the same degree, that only use as much force as is threatened, for instance if someone comes at you with a knife or a gun, that is deadly physical force and you can return it.. but if someone grabs you in a bar and you punch him in the throat and he dies, then it is not justified.. or if someone attacks you and you keep beating them when they are down and not a threat, still not justified... hope this helps..
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#349810 - 10/08/07 09:59 AM Re: Police Interrogation [Re: karate_popo]
jpoor Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/11/07
Posts: 726
Loc: Fairfax, VA
Quote:

ok this is the law, i have my BS in criminal justice.. if it was self-defense, then you will not go to jail . . .




Unless, of course, the powers that be don't believe you.
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Don't let the white belt fool you. . .
I know even less than you might think.

Best,
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#349811 - 10/08/07 10:09 AM Re: Police Interrogation [Re: jpoor]
karate_popo Offline
Member

Registered: 09/27/07
Posts: 154
Loc: NYC
well it always depends on the situation, maybe cuz of my position in society they would be more willing to believe me, then someone who has been arrested before for the same thing.. idk, this is just how i was trained, being that my sensie is retired Law enforcement
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