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#159078 - 06/22/05 07:49 PM Kata Mawashi Uke
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
This is, I suspect, one for the Goju practitioners.
Can anyone tell me applications for this kata, or more specifically the "block" mawashi uke. The only explanation I've had is that one is performing, gedan uke, gedan barai, uchi uke and soto uke in one movement. Sounds pretty lame to me. Thanks in advance for your efforts.
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#159079 - 06/22/05 08:57 PM Re: Kata Mawashi Uke [Re: McSensei]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
I'm assuming you are talking about kata Taikyoku Mawashi Uke ? I think that's relatively new kata designed for Goju-Kai...
However in GojuRyu, circular blocks are common throughout the traditional Goju kata. There are more than one effective applications and depends which circular block you mean (ending movement in Sanchin?); but the one you described isn't one of the applications I'm aware of...unless you happen to be fighting an alien with 4 arms.

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#159080 - 06/22/05 09:48 PM Re: Kata Mawashi Uke [Re: Kintama]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
Oooooooooooooo let me weigh in on this one.

The Mawashi Uke or originally known as the Tora Guchi (tiger mouth) can do anything.

It can break arms, slam someone's face into the ground, KO them while they're standing, crunch ribs, cause a great deal of pain, and I'm just getting warmed up.

It's one of the techniques that if one has to only pick one technique for life, is the perfect answer (as opposed to the other 1,000,000 techniques that are also perfect answers).

Mawashi Uke/Tora Guchi works against the left arm, against the right arm, against the neck, against either leg, from the front, from the side, from the rear.

Good slice and dice.
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#159081 - 06/23/05 07:48 AM Re: Kata Mawashi Uke [Re: McSensei]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
McSensei,

I come from a style of karate that doesn't have traditional kata, but has some of these basic techniques. We practice Mawashi-uke as a warmup for muscle memory, but it is much richer than that and has taken me a long time to appreciate it, since it can be seen in a wealth of combination defense and attack techniques.

The first and most apparent use we have for his technique is in throwing. It offers a parry to a lead right and the circular motion of the other hand then moves up to control the opponen't neck for a front rolling throw (maki-koma-nage). You do have to have a lot of skill to pull this off though.

When moving off-line from a linear attack, this movement offers a parry/knife hand attack (or if in close, parry/counter elbow) combo right off the bat. The knife hand or elbow would be aimed at the oppoent's neck. This is good for punching techniques.

But for a right front kick, right punch combo...Mawashi-uke can be used for a soto-uke parry for the kick, while the other half of this "round-house block" can be used as an uchi-uke or jodan-uke to block and then push the opponent's punch to the side (if opponent is off balance, push him entirely to the side). The benefit of the block when performing this against these attacks is that your arms and hands are always protecting your face while moving to defend.

This movement is a beautiful way to block one technique and then raise the other hand to guard.

It is very important to practice this and allow your body to get a natural feel for this exercise, after which you can implement its movements in defending and attacking.

A great technique.

-B

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#159082 - 06/23/05 08:10 AM Re: Kata Mawashi Uke [Re: Victor Smith]
shukokaichap Offline
Member

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 269
Loc: Back in th UK!
I agree with Victor it's a fantastic technique with loads and loads of potential applications.

I always wondered why Itosu never included it in the pinan / heian series when he was devising them, as it can be a bit of a hard technique to grasp when first learning it.

Is there any obvious reason that I'm missing?

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#159083 - 06/23/05 11:04 AM Re: Kata Mawashi Uke [Re: shukokaichap]
Sanchin Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 174
Quote:

I agree with Victor it's a fantastic technique with loads and loads of potential applications.

I always wondered why Itosu never included it in the pinan / heian series when he was devising them, as it can be a bit of a hard technique to grasp when first learning it.

Is there any obvious reason that I'm missing?




He did, its just a bit more subtle.(godan, look at techniques 8-10)

Also, compare the mawashi uke to the common knife hand block, low block, middle block, high block, etc... Then you can see how the other blocks were made from just this simple technique.

If you break the technique down into its basic movement, it covers all directions of execution... -- Movements the come from the outside of the body in, movements that go from the inside of the body to the outside, and movements that move directly ahead.
_________________________
"Everything is already, and always will be given" - Our New Pope. B

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#159084 - 06/23/05 12:31 PM Re: Kata Mawashi Uke [Re: Kintama]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
Taikyoku mawashi uke, thats the fellow and yes the block is the last move in Sanchin. Also appears in Tensho I believe. It also sounds as if the explanation of the 4 blocks is not so far off as I thought. (In a basic sort of way).
Still having trouble visualizing the other apps. being given although I can kind of see a throw in there somewhere.
It must be really subtle in Heian Godan though, I can't see that one at all.
Perhaps Oldman could do a sketch on it. His cartoon of Tekki shodan I thought was cracking.
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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#159085 - 06/23/05 02:12 PM Re: Kata Mawashi Uke [Re: McSensei]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
as long as you don't think those four blocks are simultaneous! lol like I was joking about the 4-arm alien.

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#159086 - 06/24/05 07:23 AM Re: Kata Mawashi Uke [Re: McSensei]
CVV Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/06/04
Posts: 605
Loc: Belgium
Taikyoku mawashi uke was created by Gogen Yamaguchi as training kata for beginners, one out of a set of 5 kata with 2 versions per kata. The others are Taikyoku jodan - chudan - gedan - kake uke.
They are only practised in his organization, nowadays 2 orghanizations run by his 2 sons.

The mawashi uke or tora guchi is a very important technique in Naha-te. For Goju ryu, it is present in almost all kata Miyagi left (except gekisai-dai ichi, shishoshin, seiunchin, sanseru).
Possible applications are trapping/locking/breaking/throwing/pushing/pulling/striking/grasping... and it is a close-range technique either moving linear or moving circular. For beginners it is a very dificult technique to grasp but even for more advanced it is not easy to use in free fighting.
Classical application is the trapping of the 2 attacks (one jodan and one chudan) putting the arms in a lock hold but more vicious is the continued grasping of the testicles eye-gouche or the finger thrust into the prostate and throath (just below larinx) or base of the neck(sideways).

What is very important (in view of Naha-te) are in my opinion 3 things :
* the variety of application of the technique in a double hand action will improve on single hand movements and will learn the value of the supporting hand. It will improve your fighting skill as you learn to use both hands in fighting.
* Sticky hand training, learning how to push/pull, spit/ swallow, ... when necesary, it is one of the ultimate hard/soft techniques. Greatest asset is redirecting your opponents energy into your advantage.
* Historic, the end pose of mawashi uke resembles a lot a hand gesture of the Buddha. I think that is why it is used a lot at the end of a kata. I have heard it has to do with promoting a peacefull mind but do not remember the details. Anyone know more about this geasture in Bhouddism ?

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#159087 - 06/24/05 07:55 AM Re: Kata Mawashi Uke [Re: McSensei]
shukokaichap Offline
Member

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 269
Loc: Back in th UK!
Quote:


It must be really subtle in Heian Godan though, I can't see that one at all.
Perhaps Oldman could do a sketch on it. His cartoon of Tekki shodan I thought was cracking.




It depents which version of godan you've been taught. I've been shown several different ways and I can see what sanchin is getting at, but it is very subtle to say the least.

An Oldman sketch of this would be great, I know he's probably reading this now and sharpening his pencil as we speak!

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