FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 27 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
mohdnabeel, sunny, swordy, jerrybarry24, SenseiGregT
22915 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Ed_Morris 4
futsaowingchun 3
AndyLA 2
Zombie Zero 2
Matakiant 2
September
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
New Topics
STX Kickboxing Seminar
by Marcus Charles
09/09/14 06:57 PM
Biu Tzu- 1st section applications
by futsaowingchun
09/05/14 10:56 PM
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
09/01/14 03:51 AM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
Chum Kiu 2nd section applications
by futsaowingchun
08/20/14 09:54 PM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
mindfullness meditation
by
01/06/09 11:27 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by
05/13/07 08:02 AM
Recent Posts
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Matakiant
Today at 07:11 AM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
Today at 06:07 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by Zombie Zero
09/16/14 04:43 PM
Eugue Ryu
by kolslaw
09/12/14 03:35 PM
attacked from behind
by AndyLA
09/07/14 07:01 PM
Biu Tzu- 1st section applications
by futsaowingchun
09/05/14 10:56 PM
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
09/01/14 03:51 AM
mindfullness meditation
by log1call
08/31/14 09:43 PM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
Chum Kiu 2nd section applications
by futsaowingchun
08/20/14 09:54 PM
Forum Stats
22915 Members
36 Forums
35575 Topics
432494 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#303365 - 11/23/06 07:02 PM Tegumi (Stand up Wrestling) Practise Clip
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
http://media.putfile.com/Tegumi-Practice

It takes some time to load, sorry about that!

As with all our stuff it is just how we work, nothing is changed or made pretty for the camera,

I view tegumi as a way of training entries and developing core strength, stamina and of course balance. Its hard work especially against Ian who is as strong as an ox and a natural fighter!

Be interested in your feedback.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

Top
#303366 - 11/23/06 08:35 PM Re: Tegumi (Stand up Wrestling) Practise Clip [Re: shoshinkan]
bo-ken Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 1228
Loc: beaver falls, PA, beaver
I don't know much about Tegumi. Is it stand up only? I thought it was Okinawa's form of wrestling?

I liked the video lots of open hand techniques. This type of clinching looks like a good set up for palm strikes.

Top
#303367 - 11/23/06 11:05 PM Re: Tegumi (Stand up Wrestling) Practise Clip [Re: shoshinkan]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
It looks like an attempt at wrestling from the clinch. I personally would like to see more of an effort to obtain good underhooks, overhooks, head ties, and body locks. I am also a fan of using my forehead to to break my opponent's structure putting pressure on the side of his head. I personally don't think that the principles of wrestling change that much from culture to culture, there are just different points of emphasis. I personally use the clinch work I learned when I wrestled. I personally see wrestling style clinch work in the kata, always have, and I probably always will.

Top
#303368 - 11/24/06 02:20 AM Re: Tegumi (Stand up Wrestling) Practise Clip [Re: medulanet]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
Yes its non compiant clinch work at the heart of it. Its an isolated set of drills and free practise to develop that range and build on the skills I mentioned. We do very little on the ground.

Full wrestling doesnt have much use to us as karateka, we need atemi, tuite, different ranges etc etc.

A good wrestler will of course be superior in this enviorment, but thats not the point now is it, its basic self defense training, ie training not reality.

Its good practise when we rotate round the dojo for 2 min rounds, different partners, different inensity, body shape, size and core strength etc etc really begin to illistrate thier importance when close range.

no atemi in the practise, no locks, no throws makes it safe for the level of the students, we do have some body armour and head gear etc etc which allows atemi to come in, I shall get a clip up sometime of that.

I dont see tegumi in the classical kata, just atemi and tuite etc etc.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

Top
#303369 - 11/24/06 04:31 AM Re: Tegumi (Stand up Wrestling) Practise Clip [Re: shoshinkan]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Quote:

Full wrestling doesnt have much use to us as karateka, we need atemi, tuite, different ranges etc etc.




I don't know about that. Most okinawan karate masters I know of had at least a solid base in some form of grappling. Karate's history is replete with karate masters training in some form of wrestling to enhance their karate. Having a good base in wrestling is necessary to be a complete fighter. You don't have to be a great wrestler if you are a good striker. All of the striking strategies from classical karate go well with a grappling base. The grappling teaches a karateka to control his opponent in close and maintain whatever range he wishes to use his techniques.

Top
#303370 - 11/24/06 06:40 AM Re: Tegumi (Stand up Wrestling) Practise Clip [Re: medulanet]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
I word things badly, my point is that we dont wrestle for sport etc etc.

What we need is not at that level as we train a broad range with a striking emphasis.

If someone wants to suppliment karate with judo, wrestling, BJJ etc etc then more power to them, my point is for basic self defense it isnt needed.

we (ie my group) are not gladiators and arnt training to deal with a sport enviroment or indeed to deal with a significantly trained opponent.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

Top
#303371 - 11/24/06 09:40 AM Re: Tegumi (Stand up Wrestling) Practise Clip [Re: shoshinkan]
Shonuff Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/03/04
Posts: 603
Loc: London, UK
Quote:

no atemi in the practise, no locks, no throws makes it safe for the level of the students,




I may be misunderstanding but if you don't strike lock or throw then what do you do in the tegumi practice, i.e what does one resist or attempt to achieve?
_________________________
It's Shotokan not Shoto-can't!!!

Top
#303372 - 11/24/06 10:22 AM Re: Tegumi (Stand up Wrestling) Practise Clip [Re: Shonuff]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
Putting it simply balance, keep yours and take your partners.

It also teaches other things such as passing the guard, body position etc etc. (you begin to see openings for strikes, locks, takedowns etc etc that just dont hapen in one step)

The practice itself is also very good for strengthening muscle and ligaments and teaching body structure/position, its also an excellent stamina workout, in a fighting context etc etc.

No one wins or loses, alot of the time when practising specific tactics, one side goes 'passive' ie gives a little resistance but not to much, the other side can then, for example practise getting behind, or breaking the posture, grip location etc etc.

Its a component of our karate, not the whole and certainly something that isnt trained by the vast majority of karate clubs,

although thats changing and as already said an increasing ammount of karateka train a second art to fill the grappling gap,

we find the tegumi is enough for our needs - it does not make us expert grapplers - thats not the point.

The little 'free' sparring we do allows tegumi (grappling) to take place along with strikes and locks and takedowns etc etc, but this is still eveloping as my students arn't ready for the full monty just yet, I am keen to not have any injuries, well as few as possible.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

Top
#303373 - 12/02/06 01:14 AM Re: Tegumi (Stand up Wrestling) Practise Clip [Re: shoshinkan]
Unsu Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 142
Loc: San Antone, Tejas
Well Jim, I think your tegumi practice is a very good thing. A lot of people have no idea what the difference between Okinawan Sumo/Tegumi is versus traditional folk wrestling as seen in other places. The aspect that you're training, neck wrestling, is actually a small part of tegumi but is very salient to gaining position in a close up standing grappling situation. That's why the Muay Thai guys practice it.

On the street you should try and avoid the ground. Duh. Carlos "Caique" Elias a 5th degree BB under Rickson and Helio once told me that in a streetfight he would never perform and armbar. He would gain position and elbow strike. IOW G-n-P. This is one of the top ranked BBs of the Gracie style who went on to form his own school which he calls "Caique Jiu Jitsu". This guy is a real fighter who fought for real in Rio de Janeiro.

I know that "ground avoidance" may seem impossible, but somehow cats like Lidell have figured it out. Wrestling, Judo and GJJ are good arts to know. They are a possible component of any physical altercation. They are nothing more than supplementary to good karate training. They are not that necessary if you know how to sprawl or stay on your feet. They are not necessary if you control the flow. A good system like some Okinawan styles, kickboxing and Muay Thai should suffice for the average person if they train had.

I like your take on things, James. You are the nicest butt-kicker on here. One of these days you're just gonna explode on folks who are quick to dis what you do or say. Or you can leave that to me. I like doing it ! No worries, bro. Your neck wrestling/tegumi is a very important aspect of good Okinawan karate training.

I know I'm a-hole number one and persona non-grata on here, but I like your steelo and that has nothing to do with your sensei being a student of my teachers! You know karate and ring fighting, so you know the real. Peace...

Top
#303374 - 12/02/06 05:17 AM Re: Tegumi (Stand up Wrestling) Practise Clip [Re: Unsu]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
Thanks for the nice comments Bryan,

our tegumi practise is popular with anyone who comes along and trains, I have stated the reasons why we train it and feel very strongly that it is a very important aspect of what we do.

I remember my early years training and the grappling/close/contact range just wasnt accounted for in karate,

I always questioned this and therefore researched and developed our solution, im guided by some very expierienced karateka so its hardly inventing anything, just training.

I shall get a clip of working with someone less skilled and strong as Ian to show the next stage of our tegumi, it will show application better.

Take care and speak soon mate.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  Ames, Cord, MattJ, Reiki, Ronin1966 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Ryukyu Art
Artifacts from the Ryukyu Kingdom missing since WWII. Visit www.ShisaLion.Org to view pictures

Best Stun Guns
Self Defense Products-stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and more

Surveillance 4U
Complete surveillance systems for covert operations or secure installation security

Asylum Images
Book presents photo tour of the Trans-Allegany Lunatic Asylum. A must if you're going to take a ghost tour!

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga