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#157448 - 06/18/05 01:34 AM Zen upside yo' head
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
A beginning student complained to his master that the meditation practice of following the breath was boring. The Zen master unexpectedly grabbed the student and held his head under water for quite a long time while the student struggled to come up. Finally, he let the student go.
"Now how boring is your breath?" he asked.

-Zen Mondo



-yes, this is the daily zen

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#157449 - 06/18/05 02:38 AM Re: Zen upside yo' head [Re: JoelM]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
some of these Zen guys teach rough...slapping with sandals, getting beatup in the kitchen fetching soup (or as some would write, 'soap'), and now forced bobbing for apprentices. lol

I don't know about this Zen stuff...maybe I'll just stick to full-contact kumite.

ok, on topic:
We don't fully appreciate the things in life until they are taken away.

"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most."

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#157450 - 06/18/05 11:31 AM Re: Zen upside yo' head [Re: Kintama]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
I got a good giggle from this one...tickled me funny bone, it did! Best part: student no worse off fromt the lesson.

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#157451 - 06/19/05 01:06 AM Day 2 [Re: JoelM]
JoelM Offline
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Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
It is a big mistake to think that the best way to express yourself is to do whatever you want, acting however you please. This is not expressing yourself. If you know what to do exactly, and you do it, then you can express yourself fully.

- Shunryu Suzuki

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#157452 - 06/19/05 05:39 AM Re: Day 2 [Re: JoelM]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
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Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
There's a big difference between express and excess. Doing "whatever you want" only leads to ruin. Doing what you feel to be truly good and right is expressing yourself.

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#157453 - 06/19/05 01:24 PM Re: Zen upside yo' head [Re: Kintama]
nenipp Offline
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Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
Kintama, if you should see me try to do something else, you wouldn't bee complaining about my spelling

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#157454 - 06/19/05 05:54 PM Re: Day 2 [Re: JoelM]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Freedom of speech does not mean it is always wise to speak freely.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#157455 - 06/20/05 12:17 AM Day 3 [Re: JoelM]
JoelM Offline
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Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
After the ecstay, the laundry.

- Zen saying


(I know what you're thinking, bite your tounge)

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#157456 - 06/20/05 01:01 AM Re: Day 3 [Re: JoelM]
nenipp Offline
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Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
if you take drugs, your clothes may get dirty

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#157457 - 06/20/05 01:03 AM Re: Day 3 [Re: nenipp]
nenipp Offline
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Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
(my tongue hurts like hell, but my fingers work just fine)

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#157458 - 06/20/05 01:04 AM Re: Day 3 [Re: nenipp]
nenipp Offline
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Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
Please note that my imagination isn't as dirty as some other's!

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#157459 - 06/20/05 01:09 AM Re: Day 3 [Re: nenipp]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
noted

(you can see where mine is)

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#157460 - 06/20/05 01:38 AM Re: Day 3 [Re: JoelM]
nenipp Offline
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Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
Back to topic (sorry 'bout the sidetrack, I thought it was funny at the time, but I was barely awake), could it be saying that you should keep your feet on the ground and not allow yourself to flip out from the experiances that a "spiritual journey" may include?

...or something, I'm having problems with putting my thoughts down in words (sometimes I wish I could use my own language)

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#157461 - 06/20/05 01:59 AM Re: Day 3 [Re: JoelM]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
do not let your persuit of enlightenment make you neglectful of your responsibilities to yourself and others.

See, I bit my tongue! It was difficult though
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#157462 - 06/20/05 06:59 AM Re: Day 3 [Re: Cord]
harlan Offline
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Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Before 'enlightenment' chop wood, carry water. After 'enlightenment'...chop wood, carry water.

That just ain't fair.


Edited by harlan (06/20/05 07:00 AM)

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#157463 - 06/20/05 07:18 AM Re: Day 3 [Re: harlan]
nenipp Offline
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Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
but what a joy it can be to chop wood, carry water!

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#157464 - 06/20/05 07:24 AM Re: Day 3 [Re: nenipp]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
nenipp, you are a true idealist. Having done it, hard, heavy labor, I can say that I think it sucks. I much prefer my enlightening experiences to be easy, accompanied with chocolate and something bubbly to drink, and followed with a life of ease.


Edited by harlan (06/20/05 07:53 AM)

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#157465 - 06/20/05 08:08 AM Re: Day 3 [Re: harlan]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
After enlightenment, break water, carry baby.

How many hours was the hard labor?

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#157466 - 06/20/05 08:10 AM Re: Day 3 [Re: oldman]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA

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#157467 - 06/20/05 08:33 AM Re: Day 3 [Re: harlan]
nenipp Offline
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Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
harlan, sounds more like a lottery jackpot than enlightenment
can't say I blame you, though.

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#157468 - 06/20/05 11:30 AM Re: Day 3 [Re: nenipp]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
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Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
(trying to think of something zen like to say, but can't concentrate from the pain in my tongue)

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#157469 - 06/20/05 11:41 AM Re: Day 3 [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
Joel, bite my tounge? I usually can't even feel my tounge after doing half of the 2 things you mentioned.

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#157470 - 06/21/05 01:19 AM Day 4 [Re: JoelM]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
In China and Japan there are many stories of teachers who attained enlightenment suddenly like this: "Umph!" You may think it was sudden, but actually it was the result of many years of practice and of failing many times. Dogen Jenji's famous words concerning this are, "Hitting the mark is the result of ninety-nine failures." The last arrow hit the mark, but only after ninety-nine failures. So failure is actually okay.

-Shunryu Suzuki

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#157471 - 06/21/05 03:06 AM Re: Day 4 [Re: JoelM]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
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Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Though the righteous man falls seven times, yet seven times will he arise.

Failure is a part of life. We learn the most from failures, if we take the time to analyze what we did wrong. It's all part of the learning process.

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#157472 - 06/21/05 08:58 AM Re: Day 4 [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Ali and Lewis both lost and regained their world championships. Considered amongst the best of all time.
Naseem Hamed undefeated in a long string of fights.Takes one loss against Barrera, loses confidence and disappears from the sport.
Hamed believed retiring undefeated was his ticket to greatness, the loss destroyed his fragile dream, showing he had no courage facing adversity. Even if he had achieved his goal, he would not have the knowledge or character of the others mentioned above.
How we deal with one failure teaches us more than 20 victories.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#157473 - 06/21/05 09:07 AM Re: Day 4 [Re: JoelM]
nenipp Offline
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Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
The process probably changes the person, it's not just a matter of "finding the right trick", the little thing that makes the "ready" person reach enlightenment probably would do nothing or something completely different to you or me..

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#157474 - 06/22/05 12:56 AM Day 5 [Re: JoelM]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Having no destination, I am never lost.

- Ikkyu

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#157475 - 06/22/05 03:09 AM Re: Day 5 [Re: JoelM]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
I did a road trip with friend many years ago, we just set out in his car for a long weekend and took roads signposted with towns/villages that had cool/interesting names, visited them and carried on until the next thing that grabbed our interest. The only rule was we were not allowed to backtrack, once we had a past a place it was gone. We found some really nice places and ate the best honey glazed ham I have ever had. Being lost can be fantastic.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#157476 - 06/22/05 04:23 AM Re: Day 3 [Re: oldman]
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
Quote:

After enlightenment, break water, carry baby.

How many hours was the hard labor?




In my case it was 32 hours of *very* hard labour for my firstborn.

Much much much harder work than anything else I've ever had to endure. But worth it.

In the case of the 2nd it was have baby, break heart
but we won't go there just now......
_________________________
Allow me to acquaint you with my friends Mr Jab and Mr Cross...

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#157477 - 06/22/05 04:28 AM Re: Day 3 [Re: Reiki]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Live for today, but plan for tomorrow.

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#157478 - 06/22/05 07:06 AM Re: Day 5 [Re: JoelM]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
Life is about the journey.

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#157479 - 06/22/05 08:26 AM Re: Day 5 [Re: JoelM]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
It is zen sayings like this one that keep me coming back. To me, a perfect expression.

Quote:

Having no destination, I am never lost.

- Ikkyu




Edited by harlan (06/22/05 08:26 AM)

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#157480 - 06/22/05 11:39 AM Re: Day 5 [Re: JoelM]
nenipp Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
Me neither, I'm always here!

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#157481 - 06/23/05 01:13 AM Day 6 [Re: JoelM]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
I have always known that at last I would take this road but yesterday I did not know it would be today.

- Narihara

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#157482 - 06/23/05 01:13 AM Day 6 [Re: JoelM]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
I have always known that at last I would take this road but yesteday I did not know it would be today.

- Narihara

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#157483 - 06/23/05 04:31 AM Re: Day 6 [Re: JoelM]
nenipp Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
I have always thought that I would never take this road, but today I'm taking it...
...go figure!

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#157484 - 06/23/05 05:52 AM Re: Day 6 [Re: JoelM]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Even that which you expect can surprise you, by happening when you least expect it.

I have always known my back would give out on me, but I thought it wouldn't happen till I was thirty.

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#157485 - 06/23/05 05:55 AM Re: Day 6 [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Death comes unexpectedly, and in different forms.

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#157486 - 06/23/05 06:13 AM Re: Day 6 [Re: harlan]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
I think death has pretty much one form, and I wouldnt care to know when that is anyway, unexpectedly is best.

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#157487 - 06/24/05 12:57 AM Day 7 [Re: JoelM]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
You are the light, You are the refuge, There is no place to take shelter but yourself.

- Inscription Over The Buddha's Ashes

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#157488 - 06/24/05 07:07 AM Re: Day 7 [Re: JoelM]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Makes sense. The truth of all things can be found within. Its why being true to yourself is so important, after all who can you rely on, if not yourself?
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#157489 - 06/24/05 11:48 AM Re: Day 7 [Re: JoelM]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
That seems to be about personal responsibility. Find your own way, your own answers, etc.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#157490 - 06/24/05 11:59 AM Re: Day 7 [Re: MattJ]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
we are not solitary beings, we function in society, we need society, we are society. You find answers in other things, its called being open minded. You search for the light and inward thought is necessary but more so than communication and interdependency? I need shoulders to lean on, so that I can leave mine free for other people.

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#157491 - 06/24/05 12:09 PM Re: Day 7 [Re: MAGr]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
MAGr, you have very nice shoulders, I am sure. But what about when you are not there? People, at some point, need to affirm themselves.

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#157492 - 06/24/05 12:37 PM Re: Day 7 [Re: harlan]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
yes, you are right, its not good/healthy to be too dependent on other people, especially when they let you down. Just pointing out that it would be nice if there was more justifiable trust, things would get done a lot quicker, and we would possibly learn more as a result.

*woulda shoulda coulda, wake up Fivo*

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