A beginning student complained to his master that the meditation practice of following the breath was boring. The Zen master unexpectedly grabbed the student and held his head under water for quite a long time while the student struggled to come up. Finally, he let the student go.
"Now how boring is your breath?" he asked.

-Zen Mondo



-yes, this is the daily zen

some of these Zen guys teach rough...slapping with sandals, getting beatup in the kitchen fetching soup (or as some would write, 'soap'), and now forced bobbing for apprentices. lol

I don't know about this Zen stuff...maybe I'll just stick to full-contact kumite.

ok, on topic:
We don't fully appreciate the things in life until they are taken away.

"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most."

I got a good giggle from this one...tickled me funny bone, it did! Best part: student no worse off fromt the lesson.

It is a big mistake to think that the best way to express yourself is to do whatever you want, acting however you please. This is not expressing yourself. If you know what to do exactly, and you do it, then you can express yourself fully.

- Shunryu Suzuki

There's a big difference between express and excess. Doing "whatever you want" only leads to ruin. Doing what you feel to be truly good and right is expressing yourself.

Kintama, if you should see me try to do something else, you wouldn't bee complaining about my spelling

Freedom of speech does not mean it is always wise to speak freely.

After the ecstay, the laundry.

- Zen saying


(I know what you're thinking, bite your tounge)

if you take drugs, your clothes may get dirty

(my tongue hurts like hell, but my fingers work just fine)

Please note that my imagination isn't as dirty as some other's!

noted

(you can see where mine is)

Back to topic (sorry 'bout the sidetrack, I thought it was funny at the time, but I was barely awake), could it be saying that you should keep your feet on the ground and not allow yourself to flip out from the experiances that a "spiritual journey" may include?

...or something, I'm having problems with putting my thoughts down in words (sometimes I wish I could use my own language)

do not let your persuit of enlightenment make you neglectful of your responsibilities to yourself and others.

See, I bit my tongue! It was difficult though

Before 'enlightenment' chop wood, carry water. After 'enlightenment'...chop wood, carry water.

That just ain't fair.

but what a joy it can be to chop wood, carry water!

nenipp, you are a true idealist. Having done it, hard, heavy labor, I can say that I think it sucks. I much prefer my enlightening experiences to be easy, accompanied with chocolate and something bubbly to drink, and followed with a life of ease.

After enlightenment, break water, carry baby.

How many hours was the hard labor?

harlan, sounds more like a lottery jackpot than enlightenment
can't say I blame you, though.

(trying to think of something zen like to say, but can't concentrate from the pain in my tongue)

Joel, bite my tounge? I usually can't even feel my tounge after doing half of the 2 things you mentioned.

In China and Japan there are many stories of teachers who attained enlightenment suddenly like this: "Umph!" You may think it was sudden, but actually it was the result of many years of practice and of failing many times. Dogen Jenji's famous words concerning this are, "Hitting the mark is the result of ninety-nine failures." The last arrow hit the mark, but only after ninety-nine failures. So failure is actually okay.

-Shunryu Suzuki

Though the righteous man falls seven times, yet seven times will he arise.

Failure is a part of life. We learn the most from failures, if we take the time to analyze what we did wrong. It's all part of the learning process.

Ali and Lewis both lost and regained their world championships. Considered amongst the best of all time.
Naseem Hamed undefeated in a long string of fights.Takes one loss against Barrera, loses confidence and disappears from the sport.
Hamed believed retiring undefeated was his ticket to greatness, the loss destroyed his fragile dream, showing he had no courage facing adversity. Even if he had achieved his goal, he would not have the knowledge or character of the others mentioned above.
How we deal with one failure teaches us more than 20 victories.

The process probably changes the person, it's not just a matter of "finding the right trick", the little thing that makes the "ready" person reach enlightenment probably would do nothing or something completely different to you or me..

Having no destination, I am never lost.

- Ikkyu

I did a road trip with friend many years ago, we just set out in his car for a long weekend and took roads signposted with towns/villages that had cool/interesting names, visited them and carried on until the next thing that grabbed our interest. The only rule was we were not allowed to backtrack, once we had a past a place it was gone. We found some really nice places and ate the best honey glazed ham I have ever had. Being lost can be fantastic.

Live for today, but plan for tomorrow.

Life is about the journey.

It is zen sayings like this one that keep me coming back. To me, a perfect expression.

Quote:

---

Having no destination, I am never lost.

- Ikkyu

---

Me neither, I'm always here!

I have always known that at last I would take this road but yesterday I did not know it would be today.

- Narihara

I have always known that at last I would take this road but yesteday I did not know it would be today.

- Narihara

I have always thought that I would never take this road, but today I'm taking it...
...go figure!

Even that which you expect can surprise you, by happening when you least expect it.

I have always known my back would give out on me, but I thought it wouldn't happen till I was thirty.

Death comes unexpectedly, and in different forms.

I think death has pretty much one form, and I wouldnt care to know when that is anyway, unexpectedly is best.

You are the light, You are the refuge, There is no place to take shelter but yourself.

- Inscription Over The Buddha's Ashes

Makes sense. The truth of all things can be found within. Its why being true to yourself is so important, after all who can you rely on, if not yourself?

That seems to be about personal responsibility. Find your own way, your own answers, etc.

we are not solitary beings, we function in society, we need society, we are society. You find answers in other things, its called being open minded. You search for the light and inward thought is necessary but more so than communication and interdependency? I need shoulders to lean on, so that I can leave mine free for other people.

MAGr, you have very nice shoulders, I am sure. But what about when you are not there? People, at some point, need to affirm themselves.

yes, you are right, its not good/healthy to be too dependent on other people, especially when they let you down. Just pointing out that it would be nice if there was more justifiable trust, things would get done a lot quicker, and we would possibly learn more as a result.

*woulda shoulda coulda, wake up Fivo*