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#156910 - 07/04/05 12:49 PM Re: Does age matter [Re: Bullfrog]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Quote:

Sanchin: Saying that you will know better when your older is really condesending... Its like saying "Your too immature/dumb/uninsightful to understand what I am saying but later on you will." Why will I later? What new revelations will happen in psychology that will sway me. I am not usually swayed by moods, only good arguments.




You are right,sorry.I should have put a probably in there.I was basing that on how I felt when I was 17-20 compared to my feelings on it now.
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#156911 - 07/04/05 02:37 PM Re: Does age matter [Re: Bullfrog]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
Quote:

So you claim that age does matter in a profession... too old is bad, so is too young. Magr claims that older is just better.



Unfortunately, age does matter in some professions...like I said, it may be simple age discrimination. just because it's not right, doesn't mean you can pretend it isn't there.

I agree with Mag in some cases, but not as a blanket generalization... knowing his/her insight from previous posts, I'd say it was not intended that way (although I admit, it does sound like it). I'll give examples of professions that are suppossedly 'equal opportunity employment':

Video game designer - hire the 20-something right out of college who also has experience aceing 'Doom 3', or the 50-something who is unbeatable in 'pong'?

Tax accountant/service rep. - hire a 20's someone out of college that may have trouble balancing their own checkbook, or a 50's someone that may have already financed his own kids thru college? which booth would you go to at H&R block? The guy with a pierced chin, or the grey hair guy?

either one of those jobs should be open to any age group if they have the qualifications.

There is a credability level of life experience that is inherent in different jobs, but not specifically listed in the requirements. for those types of jobs, age is a reality, whether it's P.C. to say so or not. now, whether or not this is discriminating is the question of debate on a case-by-case basis. but in the end of the decision chain, it is the consumer who chooses who they do business with.
To learn snowboarding, I'd choose the 20 year old instructor.
In MA, it is my choice to train with an instructor that has life experience to go with the level of technical skill I'd expect to learn from. someone may choose differently, it's not my place to tell consumers how to choose, the only valid thing would be to point out probable scams and let them decide. ...live and let learn.

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#156912 - 07/04/05 05:22 PM Re: Does age matter [Re: Kintama]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
It was a gross generalisation. For example in the stock market, the traders are never more than 30 years old. The people who make the stock models are mostly around the age of 25. But....how old do you think the people who trained them are? Or how old do you think the boss is? Why is it that heads of department and more specifically of companies are older?
Of course it was a generalisation, and there are exceptions. But experience cannot be replaced by talent. I was competing for my current job with a top class graduate from cambridge, you know why I got the job? because I had 3 years experience. Notice in the above sentence the 3 years bit. You cannot, no matter how good you are know more than I do if you just came out of college...not because I am a genius, but because I have experience.

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#156913 - 07/04/05 06:48 PM Re: Does age matter [Re: harlan]
Ethanael Offline
Member

Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 92
To a certain point, maturity comes with age. If a three year old could be a Black Belt with a GPA of 4.0 and a wife and kids, as well as the maturity to handle it all, that'd be highly impressive. But if a forty year old had a Black Belt with a GPA of 4.0 and a wife and kids, it wouldn't be -as- impressive.

Age matters, but so does maturity and the overall willingness to improve.
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Supporting Sanchin31 as he says "Nuts to cancer"

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#156914 - 07/04/05 07:20 PM Re: Does age matter [Re: Ethanael]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
So whats your point. If I had wheels I would be a trolley, but I dont, and I am not.

Maturity comes with age, because it comes with experience and experience takes time. Why? because there are only 24 hours in a day.

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#156915 - 07/04/05 08:09 PM Re: Does age matter [Re: MAGr]
Ethanael Offline
Member

Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 92
But if you aren't mature enough to put as much as you can into each training session, time is nothing. It'd be better to spend an hour of intense, rigorous, focused training, than five hours of laid back, light training...That's the point I was trying to make, and I hope I didn't offend you or come off in the wrong way.


Edited by Ethanael (07/04/05 08:10 PM)
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Supporting Sanchin31 as he says "Nuts to cancer"

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#156916 - 07/04/05 10:16 PM Re: Does age matter [Re: MAGr]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Quote:

Maturity comes with age, because it comes with experience and experience takes time. Why? because there are only 24 hours in a day.




Does it? Time and experience are relative concepts. War, personal violence and abandonment have a strange way of folding time and enlarging worldly experience in an instant.

Define maturity. Physical? Emotional? Mental? All of the above? Maturity does not come with age. I know a 40 year old mentally challenged person with the maturity level of an 8 year old. What level of maturity would you consider to be appropriate?

My boys (6 and 8) are extremely mature for their age, and my 6yo has no qualms about "teaching" the other (bigger) kids in the class how to do a technique properly. Well, it's actually more like correcting them or telling them how to do it. The problem is, he's bloody good when it comes to knowing the minute technical detail - really simple things like which hand and which foot forward.

Oh, and I disagree entirely with what you said.

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#156917 - 07/05/05 02:35 AM Re: Does age matter [Re: MAGr]
symbiot Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 18
Loc: Australia
martial arts is not a team sport.
experience makes the fighter,
training in schools or dojos is learning other peoples experience.
only in aspect refering to experience.
as a white belt begginer in karate i had more experience in grappling than a 50th dan karate master.
learning depends mostly on ones perception of the facts and how well the facts are understood. eg i learned how to bite as a fighter from childrens dirty tactics just by seeing them do it to another person and observing the reaction.
biting is a good way to escape a lot of techniques
practice makes the difference

use what you learn from whoever you learn it from, people are like the intenet you only get out what you put in, not what someone puts in.



Edited by symbiot (07/05/05 02:43 AM)

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#156918 - 07/05/05 05:42 AM Re: Does age matter [Re: symbiot]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Biting is not a good idea. Think of all the potential blood borne diseases that you could come into contact with. Hepatitis C is a nice one to catch - NOT, unless of course you don't mind progressive liver dysfunction and failure.

I suggest you learn how to fight properly instead of posting such rubbish.

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#156919 - 07/05/05 06:44 AM Re: Does age matter [Re: eyrie]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
Quote:

Maturity does not come with age. I know a 40 year old mentally challenged person with the maturity level of an 8 year old. What level of maturity would you consider to be appropriate?



I didnt say maturity comes with age, I said maturity comes with experience. Yes, there are extreme circumstances like war, like losing both your parents and having to take care of your younger siblings, that fold time (as you put so eloquently). But I am not discussing those cases. I am discussing the average joe.
Also its not relevant to discuss feudal Japan and China and how old their teachers were because, firstly they were not sheltered from hardships as we are today and (as published by an american institute) the puberty period of a teenager is getting longer and longer, and all the things that the previous statement imply are the exact opposite of the experiences of 20 year old adults in feudal times.

Quote:

The problem is, he's bloody good when it comes to knowing the minute technical detail - really simple things like which hand and which foot forward



I do not doubt your kids maturity FOR THEIR AGE...but which hand and foot goes forward is hardly 'minute detail'. Also I will reserve the right not discuss your kids due to undeniable mother's bias

Like I said before teaching an art is not only about talent or knowing the technique. Its about being able to communicate and control and know little details about how people react, it takes time to develop that understanding.

Anyway, I think we will have to agree to disagree.

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