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#156900 - 07/03/05 05:08 PM Re: Does age matter [Re: McSensei]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
Tell me where I mentioned that everyone HAS to feel the same way as I do, and then you'll have an argument.

I'm not going to stop anyone bent on learning SD from a 5th dan 19 year-old...any more than you'd be able to stop me from going dirt bike riding with my teenage nephew who teaches me stuff to improve my time. (good upper body workout by the way) yes, I pay him for teaching me...and he works for it, because I suck. lol

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#156901 - 07/03/05 07:55 PM Re: Does age matter [Re: McSensei]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
Quote:

Having composed music from about the age of 6, Mozart( within the field of music) at age 18 would have had the maturity of someone much, much older




How does that work?
I helped train a 16yearold who broke a world record in swimming, how does tht make her mature? She was just really good. Like its been said before, when it comes to teaching, talent comes second to maturity. And maturity is not developed by being really good its developed through experience, and the biggest factor in experience is time!

Quote:

So what most on here are saying is that yes at 18 they are mature enough to learn this stuff
but not mature enough to pass it on.



Yes, but not because of irresponsibility but because of quality of teaching. We are not debating whether the 19 yearold is responsible enough, we are debating wether a 19 yearold would be a good teacher. Try and read the responses and the questions before you answer.

Quote:

When people ask questions on this forum every body weighs in with an answer. Some of the answers and advice are good, some are bad. Plenty of those answers come from young adults.



Yes, but
1. We are not pretending to give anything more than advice
2. You are not paying for that advice
3. We dont claim to be qualified teachers.
4. People ask for our opinion and we ask for other people's, its called a forum mate!

Quote:

this attitude displays
the utmost arrogance and closed mindedness.



Why? because I am not willing to change my opinion, from your oh so convincing arguement, arent you abit arrogant thinking that you are right and we are wrong?

This has nothing to do with arrogance. Its some people's opinion that they would not enrole in a school being taught by a teenager. It should not be too hard to understand why. Someone older and more experienced would be a better teacher.

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#156902 - 07/03/05 08:00 PM Re: Does age matter [Re: MAGr]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
MAGr,

Amen, brother..You got it right!

And I thought we went through this whole thing a couple of times already. Sheesh! But gotta agree with our Greek-English friend here.

-B

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#156903 - 07/03/05 09:35 PM Re: Does age matter [Re: MAGr]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
MaGr,
The dictionary definition of maturity is full development.
By age 18 Mozart was fully developed, musically and I was refering to points made by BnK about prodigies.
As to maturity being developed by experience and therefore time, I completely agree. Where we disagree is "what time" (of life).
Points numbered 1.2.3.4. have some merit but surely advising is a form of teaching.
Lastly, I do think I'm right yes, but I do at least consider the arguments against me and concede if I'm proved wrong.
Also, I agree people can make their own decisions about where, when and under whom they train. I'm fully aware that it is not usually the case that someone young will be a good teacher. However, to rule out completely the possibility that somewhere, someone under 20 could teach them something in MA is closedminded and arrogant.

At least we know where we all stand on this now.
I'm with mothercare,
You're with cardigans 'r' us
It's a forum, right?
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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#156904 - 07/03/05 10:19 PM Re: Does age matter [Re: MAGr]
Bullfrog Offline
Member

Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 121
Loc: Wellington, New Zealand
Example for you magr? I assume that people she was competing against where older... So unless there is a flaw in your reasoning or their competition, that would make her... better than the others? Even though they are older.

http://www.agepositive.gov.uk/newsdetail.cfm?sectionID=44&newsid=439

You do have the harder position to defend however. You are claiming that ALL younger people in one sector are worse than their older counterparts, all I have to do is provide one counterexample to show that out of two people in the same profession, someone younger can do better.

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#156905 - 07/03/05 11:20 PM Re: Does age matter [Re: Bullfrog]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Bullfrog, I don't think we could ever convince you,but you will change your mind when you get older.Just because someone is better means they would be a good teacher? I don't think so.It takes much more than physical skill.
I'll bet her teachers weren't teenagers.
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#156906 - 07/03/05 11:26 PM Re: Does age matter [Re: McSensei]
pathfinder7195 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 336
Loc: T.C Michigan, U.S
Quote by Mcsensei
"However, to rule out completely the possibility that somewhere, someone under 20 could teach them something in MA is closedminded and arrogant."

Yes I agree you can learn something from a 20 yr old, this is not some new revelation. I want the best instructor possible and their not 19 yr olds. Look at all major sports NFL, NHL, NBA, and MLB. Not one of these teams have a 19 yr old as a coach. Why because these people spend millions of dollars for the best coach/teacher possible and guess what their not 19. You will never ever see a 19 yr old coach one of these teams.

The best doctor's, lawyer's, scientists, ect are not 19 yr olds. So yes go teach somebody something. But for me I want the best just like major league sports do I don't want some t-ball coach when I can have the best.

Kevin

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#156907 - 07/03/05 11:53 PM Re: Does age matter [Re: Bullfrog]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
I hear what you are saying, but your example is weak.
I've added my comments to reflect reality.

Busting ageist myths

"Too old for a job in IT" - yes, it's called discrimination but it happens. It's unprovable since you don't know the 'real' reason people don't give 50+ the job. They say sorry, you are 'overqualified'. but they could be thinking: 'too old'. I've never ever worked with a near retirement age software engineer or IT person. Engineers usually change careers to teaching by their 50's and retire doing that or teach after retiring.

"Too old to change direction" - This I do agree with...whether or not you are able to support yourself or retire in this 'new direction' is another question.

"Too young to be a manager" - yes, you CAN be too young to be a manager of a job that you get paid for...unless it's managing a lemonade stand in front of your house.
again, the age question goes with the seriousness of the subject.
Who do you know that will allow a teenager to manage their retirement account?

Age does matter. It's reality.

[edit]I also don't like age discrimination, but the website you gave seems to tell people what they want to hear or what is a possible future.

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#156908 - 07/04/05 04:47 AM Re: Does age matter [Re: Kintama]
Bullfrog Offline
Member

Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 121
Loc: Wellington, New Zealand
Kintama, correct me if i'm wrong, but in fact you completly dissagree with Magr, who claims that:

Magr:
Quote:

"In the real world, older people in ANY profession are more experienced and more mature and just plain better."




Kintama :

Quote:

I've added my comments to reflect reality.... They say sorry, you are 'overqualified'. but they could be thinking: 'too old'. I've never ever worked with a near retirement age software engineer or IT person. Engineers usually change careers to teaching by their 50's and retire doing that or teach after retiring.




So you claim that age does matter in a profession... too old is bad, so is too young. Magr claims that older is just better.

Correct?

The reason I need to seperate the two is I cannot debate two people on two different things at the same time.

Sanchin: Saying that you will know better when your older is really condesending... Its like saying "Your too immature/dumb/uninsightful to understand what I am saying but later on you will." Why will I later? What new revelations will happen in psychology that will sway me. I am not usually swayed by moods, only good arguments.


Edited by Bullfrog (07/04/05 05:40 AM)

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#156909 - 07/04/05 12:37 PM Re: Does age matter [Re: SANCHIN31]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
"You will change your mind when you get older"

My parents still tell me this now and I'm 38!
I don't agree, even though I use the same phrase to my children.
What we should say is "probably".
Age is relative anyway.
The last thing I wanted was to turn this into a black and white argument. There are always grey areas.
What I have been trying to argue is that although in most cases a young teacher might not be as good as an older one, it is not absolute. Even Victor Smith came up with an exception.
Another question is availability. If your choice was between
a 20yr old that taught an honest, but only fair standard of MA or a 30 something that taught a poor standard, where would you go?
You could say you'd go to neither. Then you would be missing out altogether.
I would at least give the younger guy a chance.

Pathfinder7195

You have millions to spend on MA.
Lucky you.
The very top instructors are not readily available to the masses.
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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