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#155574 - 07/05/05 04:20 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: SANCHIN31]
Slayr Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 160
Loc: Columbus, Ga. USA
My experience with instructors who don't spar their students is usually that they are afraid of not having their students believe that they are untouchable or have some mystical power. I find that this is just being full of yourself. Mix it up with your students and get rid of the big head. Maybe humbleing is needed and it can come at the end of a yellow belt's glove. Teach them and stay just above their level to keep the pressure on, but not overwhelm.

Respectfully,
15 yrs. 3rd dan
_________________________
There are many paths to the top of the mountain, but the view is always the same.

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#155575 - 07/05/05 05:22 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: SANCHIN31]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Woah!! OK, we won't turn the conversation into religious rhetoric, but to both Ironfoot and Sanchin, just because you don't believe, doesn't make it untrue....

In any case, I'll go with the conceptual idea that Ironfoot setup and agree with his premise of students getting better with teacher sparring.

-B

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#155576 - 07/06/05 11:48 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: butterfly]
mateo Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/04
Posts: 63
Loc: Toronto
My instructor of the last 20 years, Hwang In-Shik, is in his mid sixties and still sparring. I think this is very inspiring for the students who wonder what is the age potential for continuing to be truly active in the sport.

It inspires me, when as a fellow just pushing 40 I feel perhaps I am involved in a young man's game, to look to him and know that will and consistancy in training account for a great deal.
_________________________
Matthew Rogers www.spiritforging.com

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#155577 - 07/07/05 03:45 AM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: mateo]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
I also believe that that instructors sparring with students helps keep them humble too. Having a white belt hit them with that sneaky gyakazuki is a great way of reminding them even "masters" are still human, and that the MA path still has a few miles left on it!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#155578 - 07/08/05 03:51 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: Slayr]
Slayr Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 160
Loc: Columbus, Ga. USA
I want to add to that last post by mentioning that an instructor does get to a certain age when sparring is just not going to be appropriate and then maybe it is not a good idea. I say if age is the factor, then okay. Age, not ego. Just felt that I should add that after reading my last post.
_________________________
There are many paths to the top of the mountain, but the view is always the same.

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#155579 - 07/08/05 04:26 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: Slayr]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I think sometimes kyu level students don't understand the lesson that a sparring session hold. They see the movies and Tv and think this is how things goes.

I recently sparred with an adult Green belt he weight trained before taking my classs. He was probably 6'5 265lb and I'm 6'3 225lb, I decided to sparr him because we had just finished his test requirement the night before that was cancelled due to a black out/electrical shortage by thunder storm. And the brown belts there had just come back to class and were way out of shape. It was in between the next class coming in.

It was suppose to be him showing me that he could use the technique taught at that level in combinations. It ended up with him standing on 1. leg wriggling toward me, swinging wildly and learning nothing. He ended up vomoting and heaving on the floor from a solid kick in the stomach. He did a lot of things that would have made another person mad enough to hit him in the face. Like trying to second punch, it was hard to explain that swinging wild and 2nd punching is not wanted because he thought you are taking away the only way he got close with. There are 5 ranges/levels of sparring that I teach this was point sparring, I wanted to show how rules change the way we fight. He didn't learn any of this all he learned was pain. After this happens and on various different occassion with high school and College football players it makes me wonder if there is another way to mild their ego. Sometimes they leave & sometimes they don't pending the injury.

As a referee I could explain the rules and make him straighten up as sparring opponenet he thought I was trying to limit him. The Brown belt were rusty refs too.

As for being untouchable if you can't knock O'Sensei back with a punch to the stomach. Me with my feet slightly apart almost side by side you do push ups, from Green belt - Brown. From kids to adults, I determine how many by how weak the attempt pending size.

Some of my classes are not in the best part of town.


Edited by Neko456 (07/08/05 04:45 PM)

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#155580 - 07/08/05 04:41 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: mateo]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
That is a trully amazing TKD man, I've heard such things in Tai-Chi, Goju but TKD thats impressive. We are talking about adult 3kup- and up also.

Amazing.
_________________________
DBAckerson

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#155581 - 07/09/05 07:11 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: schanne]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
schanne,

Interesting topic and one that seems to have valid answers on both sides of the fence.

Are there times when an instructor should spar with students, no matter what their rank? Absolutely.

Are there times when time could be better spent observing and coaching from the sidelines? Absolutely.

Instructors should be honest about why they are doing something though. There are certainly some instructors who enjoy the "mystique" and would not risk it by losing face in front of an audience. Some of those same instructors will conveniently hide behind the idea that they are coaching. I would say that, if you need that mystique to be an effective instructor, you are playing a dangerous game with your ego.

I spar with all my students. If I get caught, I got caught. No excuses. Sometimes however, I just watch and coach. I know, and my students know, the difference.


Edited by Fletch1 (07/09/05 07:14 PM)
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