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#155564 - 06/18/05 09:54 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: BulldogTKD]
nekogami13 V2.0 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 2643
Loc: Texas, USA
I helped instruct the children's sparring class.
I would spar with some of the older kids:15-17 year olds.
I also would spar with the adults that were new to sparring.

Did I go in and beat the snot out of them?
No. I sparred a little over their level, enough to challenge them. I would also talk to them during and afterwards, pointing out some good stuff I saw and some bad stuff.

Why would a much higher belt do any less?
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#155565 - 06/18/05 09:59 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: nekogami13 V2.0]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Neko,

That's all I think most who were recommending sparring students would require...not beating the crap out of someone, that is not MAs.

What I understood most to state here about not sparring students was an absolute with no qualifications attached.

Sorry if I (or we) was/were misconstruing something that you posted.

-B

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#155566 - 06/19/05 01:26 AM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: butterfly]
nekogami13 V2.0 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 2643
Loc: Texas, USA
I was throwing my support in with those advocating higher belts should spar, not defending any previous post.

Sorry if my wording/phrasing made it seem otherwise-I am on sinus meds,they tend to make me a little unfocused.
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#155567 - 06/23/05 11:55 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: schanne]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
They are not necessarily mutually exclusive (teaching and sparring). However there can be a difference. Where is the teacher most effective, to get the knowledge across? Is it most helpful to spar or can you be more effective showing me by another way? Teachers sparring with students has all kinds of potential some negative, some positive...

What is gained by sparring with the students, IYHO? If someone thinks I'm ~immortal~ or some such silliness because I do not spar with them... well, they are projecting big time, no?

At some point you will and are far, far superior in a technical sense the folks you work with as students. You come down to their level (whatever that might be) and help hone their skills.

I cannot agree it is a mystical thing, it is pure pragmaticism and very functional matter... IMHO.

J

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#155568 - 06/30/05 11:30 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: schanne]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
Great topic and fantastic posts from 1973, MattJ and others! I can see all sides here.

On the one hand, your shihan has a point if you're getting old, schanne, but I don't think that's the case. If you're starting to slip you may lose the respect of beginners - those who don't have the depth of appreciation the older students have for your overall knowledge. And again, sparring is a game of tag, advantage to the young, not always to the skilled.

For what it's worth, I AM a 5th degree, and 55 years old. Last time I sparred with the kyus? Lemme see...oh yeah - YESTERDAY. I hope it was beneficial to them. I know I still enjoy it. Most of the time I let them attack; now and them I put 'em on their heels to see how they defend. I only fight as hard as I have to; funny how I get better as they do Probably will have to stop this one day. Check back with me in 5 years.


Edited by Ironfoot (06/30/05 11:33 PM)
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#155569 - 07/01/05 12:39 AM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: Ironfoot]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Ironfoot,

And that is exactly as it should be!


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#155570 - 07/01/05 01:46 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: Ironfoot]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Ironfoot -

Great to hear that! I'm sure you're students do benefit. Of course, at SOME point age will catch up with someone as an instructor. I do not recommend sparring with anyone if they are too "old" or there are other valid medical concerns.

But to say beginners are not worth your time, or there is a need to preserve "mystique".......

I think not.

Good debate, though.
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#155571 - 07/01/05 02:32 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: Ironfoot]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
I understand what your saying and respect it, my post wasn't clear enough and let me say as of today I still spar with EVERYONE in our dojo including Shihan. I think his point was that he wanted me teaching more vs. banging heads with everyone during class....during our normal classes I would put on all my gear and fight everyone(round robin)and in turn there wasn't anyone over seeing the sparring or mistake the students were making while fighting. Someone has to be watching/in charge right? and if I'm suppose to be teaching class who is critiquing/observing the students mistakes....that was his point. .......now the mystique thing still baffles me, don't think he had the right choice of words
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The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

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#155572 - 07/05/05 12:13 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: MattJ]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
I believe in the Theory of Evolution. People, animals or plants evolved because THEY HAD TO. When I started long ago, we sparred a lot, and control was spotty to say the least. Kyus improved to survive, or dropped out. Razorfoot's sensei MADE him improve.

I try to be gentle, but one step ahead, coaxing the students into that next step to beat the old man.
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#155573 - 07/05/05 12:29 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: Ironfoot]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
I do not believe in evoultion and I think our opinions on that have no place here and nothing to do with the topic at hand!
Kyu's don't evolve, they learn!
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