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#155544 - 06/15/05 11:42 AM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: BulldogTKD]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
BulldogTKD -

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this issue, my friend. You make a good point about observation, but I am convinced people will learn more from actually sparring a high rank as opposed to just being observed by them.

Surely you will see openings, etc, that your lower BB's may not be able to take advantage of? Rather than just pointing them out, if you *show* them by doing, they usually learn much quicker, IMHO.
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#155545 - 06/15/05 11:46 AM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: SANCHIN31]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
I am with MattJ and Sanchin31 on this one as well. An instructor should be able to get down on the floor and do what he is demonstrating and spar with the students.

As for using one's time wisely as Bulldog stated. If you spar with your students, perhaps the one you are aparring with may not reap all the rewards, but he will learn from the endeavor. However, the main education will be for those watching who can gain more understanding in a few minutes than having you explain for half an hour.

An instructor doesn't have to spar everyone, but should get down and diry with the "crew" once and awhile.

Mystique and misques...that is what not sparring brings up. One has to question the motives of those that will not spar students, unless age or injury is in question.

-B

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#155546 - 06/15/05 12:51 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: butterfly]
Gavin Offline
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Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
I'm always left in a constant state of mystique every time my instructor sits me on my arse! Acutally thinking back on it, I don't think that instructors should be allowed to spar!
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#155547 - 06/15/05 03:53 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: Gavin]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Gavin,

Funny thing. My old instructor who was very good and had an uncanny ability of cutting one of your feet from beneath you with a kick and knocking you down...with that same foot, as you were falling, he would "nicely" cup your head in the crook of his ankle and ease your head to the ground. This was to let you know he could have smashed your noggin like a watermelon if he had wanted to.

I and one of my senpai (a former boxer) asked him how he got this good...what was the secret?

His answer: Practice . This is what showcasing technique can inspire in those under you.

-B

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#155548 - 06/15/05 04:38 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: schanne]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
What I think he really means is that he would like me teaching more rather than just flat out training with the regular students. Who knows what he wants, Shihans and Senseis are a strange bunch at times.
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The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

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#155549 - 06/15/05 05:41 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: butterfly]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Sounds like a right cocky bar steward! This is merely backs up my arguement, instructors shouldn't spar! I really feel this backs up my statement!

Can't really speak, I've just got back from training and have just put one of our new black belts on the floor! Cheeky git though returned the favour! These new guys just don't know the rules do they!!!!
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#155550 - 06/16/05 10:21 AM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: BulldogTKD]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I agree that sparring with students below Black Belt is a waste of time. What are you trying to prove that you are humble enough to spar your students, that you are in shape enough to spar everyone in class. I think that Sandan mentality at Yodan and above you should spar no lower then 1st Kyu Brown belt. They have the ability to understand whats happening to them.

The only time I will spar a color belt is in private classes or if he keeps making the same mistake during class, so its not sparring its teaching. I find that fighting in slow motion so that they can see or feel the technique upsets my timing, even teaching/sparring. Sometimes the kyu level people will run into a technique that is pulled. I find rather then have to feel terrible about a color belt running into a pulled technique I'd rather coach him and let him spar a person closer to his skill level. I feel this way even when sparring 5th-10th dans that can't block or past their prime phyiscally. Now these Masters, I can learn from them on various topics. Theres so many areas to explorer in MA.

Sparring isn't about rank level or winning its about learning and communicating, and there is a point where there is very little that he/she can gained from sparring/learning with a Sandan and above. They learn that they are not fast enough, strong enough, lack timing, don't know enough, such lesson take away rather then add benifits.
After you get over 15-20 students its a waste of time 1 person sparring twenty students 1 at a time. All learning the same above lesson. Let them spar different weights, heights, speeds, attitudes, timing and distance. Near their level where they can improve upon, rather then set future dreams, 1 day I'll be that fast or good. Let them take the 1 step toward the 1k mile journey.

I don't let Brown belts Spar green belts the skill level is far too different and some Brown belts have a take no prison attitude/kyu level attitude. Now I will let certain Shodans Spar with Green and below because they have the right mental out look. Their trying to teach not actually spar with them.

I will grapple with the class, but not the entire class, I have nothing to prove. When I was coming up it was a privelivage to move around with higher rank or come to a with the higher level class and only a gifted 1-3rd kyu level was given that oppurnity.

Learning, communication and setting standards is the key here, every school is different. This is what works best for me.


Edited by Neko456 (06/16/05 11:18 AM)
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#155551 - 06/16/05 03:50 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: schanne]
1973 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 20
If you feel it is important for you to spar with the lower rank students for their benefit then you need to discuss this with your shihan if ceasing sparring is something he is insisting on you doing. One of the good things about training for years and achieveing higher rank is that you are now allowed to have an opinion that your superior rank instructors will actually listen to (usually). I would always spar with the below BB ranks teaching en route and complimenting them when they find an opening or make a good technique, slip one in now and then nice and easy to keep them on their toes. They usually bow out with a smile appreciating the fact that I took the time and helped them and didn't kick their butt for my own ego. I beleive this got me more respect from the students not less, they love you for it. For above BB of course that's a little different, since they are obviously more on your level and maybe in some cases more so in physical (but likely not technical) ability. Their traing would hopefully already have taught them to respect you for who and what you have become as a MA and what you can still teach them and not who can take who. Sparring with the BB always helped to keep me sharpened up, so I got some training myself while teaching. I never felt it diminished my status with the students. It all comes down to, if your shihan insists what will you do? Are you prepared to go your own way if need be? Only you can answer, but I don't know if it's worth it over such an issue. You could just have the students spar with each other and give that pair individual attention as you circle the room if class size is not too big and would probably have the same effect. Your attention and encouragement is what they want, and as you know there are various ways to give it to them. I may not have expressed anything you didn't know already but that's my imput, hope it helps.

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#155552 - 06/16/05 04:36 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: 1973]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Thank you, nicely worded.
_________________________
The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

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#155553 - 06/16/05 08:01 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: 1973]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
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Loc: York PA. USA
1973 -

Great post, exactly.

*applause*
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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