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#155524 - 06/14/05 11:10 AM Instructors sparring
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
My Shihan told me the other day that it is time that I stop sparring with the class and lower black belts. He said there is a point in your life and training that an instructor must seperate himself from the students. He said that it creates more of a mistique about yourself and if I needed to spare that he and I or the other higher ranking BB could get together and work out on our own. New it was coming so it really wasn't a suprise. Question for instructors above fourth dan, how do you guys deal with sparring with your students? Do you spar or just teach?
_________________________
The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

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#155525 - 06/14/05 11:34 AM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: schanne]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
While I am not a 4th degree, I have to say that is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. There is a 7th degree American kenpo BB on Bullshido that regularly spars people in his school and other schools.

"Mystique"? Is he worried about maintaining the "unbeatable sensei" ideal? Ridiculous. Fanning ego is the beginning of the downfall. Anyone can be beat, anytime.

If you want to spar, go spar. Find a new instructor if he has a problem with it.

Sorry if that came out disrespectful, but that really pisses me off.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#155526 - 06/14/05 11:36 AM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: schanne]
BulldogTKD Offline
Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 294
I spar to teach. We have have an obligation to teach our students and part of that teaching is to work with them in all aspects of their training. After reaching a certain rank of 5th Dan one should have a lower rank Blackbelts spar with the students and then you still can teach both students.

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#155527 - 06/14/05 12:08 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: BulldogTKD]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
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Loc: York PA. USA
Sorry Bulldog, I disagree completely. Why should you not spar?
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#155528 - 06/14/05 12:26 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: MattJ]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
I am not an instructor, but my instructor spars with us, he does the push ups with us and he sweats with us. We are not kids to have some mystical impression of him, we know he is human, and the fact that he doesnt tell us to do something that he would not do with us makes us respect him more than he can imagine.
I would actually lose respect if the instructor would not back up what he is saying.

Even when I was really young, and I did judo, my instructor back then still sparred with us (softly) and even then I appreciated his hands on approach.

The only reason an instructor would have for not sparring is because he would be afraid to lose! Only in MAs do people have that mentality. The measure of a teacher is not his a bility to whoop ass, its his ability to teach (fighting, and morals/ethics etc).

Take tennis for example, do you think the top players cant beat their coaches? Of course they can, they would wipe the floor with them, but that is not the point is it??

Of course after a certain age you cant spar for health reasons, but as far as I am concerned fear is a poor excuse.

edit: also I realise that i am not an instructor, and that its not really in my position to speak, but I hope one day to teach, even if its only my kids, but I hope to do it right.
I dont mean any disrespect to the other instructors here, but I though you might want a students opinion also


Edited by MAGr (06/14/05 12:33 PM)

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#155529 - 06/14/05 12:33 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: schanne]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Sparring with the higher rank black belts is a great thing to do. You can learn a lot more sparring against a higher rank than you can a lower rank (IMO). That being said, why should that rule apply only to you as a higher rank and not to the lower ranks? (not an attack on you, just on the idea)
I would rather know that my instructor can hand my ass to me than think that he has mysterious fighting powers that can destroy me, and I do. When I spar him, I'll get some good shots in, but he lets me know that I have a lot to learn and a long way to go.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#155530 - 06/14/05 01:59 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: MattJ]
BulldogTKD Offline
Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 294
Quote:

Sorry Bulldog, I disagree completely. Why should you not spar?




If you have a 5th Dan in class along with jr. Blackbelts then the high rank is best utilized observing and teaching. He or she has more experience and knowledge and can pass that on much easier if they can observe the class as opposed too participating in the sparring matches. 5th Dan sparring colored belts is a waist of valuable teaching time. That higher rank is very intimating to students and they will be hindered by their thinking. But the 5th Dan sparring other Blackbelts is great, but I still feel it is more detrimental to spar colored belts then helpful.

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#155531 - 06/14/05 03:40 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: BulldogTKD]
MN JC Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 189
Loc: Coon Rapids, MN USA
I think it is a good learning experiance, really good for the colored belts. They learn a multitude of things this way, not the least of which are, humility, not to be intimidated and should be able to pick up some good combos.

I understand what you are saying but I think that sparring with a much higher belt can teach you a lot.

I no longer spar with my 7th dan instructor but, that is only because he underwent hip replacement and is no longer able to move his hip that well, but until the surgery he sparred everyone and it really helped many of the lower belts to see that there is a progression and to get them over feeling intimidated.
_________________________
--------------- Dream it, Live it, Be it! (What is it?) -John

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#155532 - 06/14/05 04:23 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: BulldogTKD]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:

That higher rank is very intimating to students and they will be hindered by their thinking.




I actually think that the fact that sparring with higher grades is intimidating is a very good thing. Although its not real, sparring still gets students adernaline pumping, puts them under pressure, and they learn how to deal with it. They will have a better understanding of how they will operate once the aderline kicks. Personally, I'd want both myself and my students to experience the pressure and intimidation in the caring enviroment of the dojo, than at the hands of a thug on the street.

I also feel that new students are far better off being paired of against Black Belts when they first start sparring, than lower grades, because of the control aspects. Lower grades just don't simply know how to pull their blows, when higher grades *should*.
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#155533 - 06/14/05 04:42 PM Re: Instructors sparring [Re: Gavin]
BulldogTKD Offline
Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 294
Try looking at it from a teaching point of view. If I spar with my students I can only work with and coach one person at a time. If I observe there sparing then I can work with as many as I need. I can stop two people that might be having problems or just if one is having problems and, I can give better feedback and point them in the right direction. If I can say, Joe, throw that round kick again and Tom you counter. Ok Tom, that was a great block, but instead of blocking this time try to step parry and counter with a front kick or punch, like so. Joe, throw that round kick again, at me this time! Then I demonstrate, watch, Tom and work a bit with him on his timing. If I am sparring my student I can only teach and see so much.

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