FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 44 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
old1, Leonar, ManLar, Vimido, raya
22925 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
futsaowingchun 4
Ronin1966 3
AndyLA 1
GojuRyuboy13 1
Matakiant 1
October
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
Yesterday at 10:32 AM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
Tan,Bong,Fuk & Wu Sao
by futsaowingchun
09/30/14 12:10 AM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
09/25/14 08:50 AM
Wing Chun-internal training
by futsaowingchun
09/23/14 09:01 PM
Martial News
by Matakiant
09/23/14 06:42 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by Leo_E_49
01/24/12 02:58 AM
Recent Posts
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
Yesterday at 10:32 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by swordy
10/11/14 09:21 AM
Living a full life violence free...
by cxt
10/10/14 10:08 AM
The Karate punch
by Ronin1966
10/09/14 03:16 PM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Ronin1966
10/08/14 09:22 PM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by AndyLA
10/04/14 10:20 AM
Tan,Bong,Fuk & Wu Sao
by futsaowingchun
09/30/14 12:10 AM
Wing Chun-internal training
by futsaowingchun
09/23/14 09:01 PM
Forum Stats
22925 Members
36 Forums
35582 Topics
432509 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#155253 - 06/13/05 05:35 PM The melting pot of kung fu
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
As far as I know, the consensus is that wing chun was created out of a mix of what "masters" then thought as the most effective techniques from the other kung fu styles.
As a wing chun practitioner, I have not, unfortunately come into contact with practitioners of other styles, and I would love to know, where wing chun got its techniques from.
I ll list a few
Blocks:
Bong Sau (wing arm)
Tan Sau (beggars hand)
Man Sau (asking hand)
Gan Sau
Dip Sau
Jum Sau

Strikes:
chain punches
biu gee finger strikes
cutting elbows
palm strikes
fat sau (chop)
Rear stamp kick
front kick
shin kick
elbow break etc..

Techniques:
lok sau
chi sau
wooden dummy (do other kung fu styles use this?)

Excuse my translations, but where did all this come from?
Is there a particular style that it came from?
What about the goat stance?
I would appreciate ANY insight into your respective arts.
Of course the names vary

Top
#155254 - 06/13/05 05:52 PM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: MAGr]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Good question MAGr.

While far from a Kung Fu expert, I have researched many MA styles, including some KF styles, and have never seen the Bong Sao in any other system.

It seemed so bizarre, yet effective, that it prompted me towards significant self-study of WC/Chi sao.

Most of the other blocks and strikes I have seen (variations of) in some of the animal systems. Chi Sao is somewhat similar to Tai Chi "push hands", so maybe there is a connection.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#155255 - 06/13/05 06:49 PM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: MattJ]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
Push hands? I ll look into that!
Yes the Bong Sau is effective, but I have read in another thread which I forget the name of, that the elbow is used to block in other MAs aswell.

I have heard of many non WC practitioners doing chi sau.
How do you go about it with no prior knowledge? I am not being sarcastic, just inquisitive, because it would seem to me that trappig techniques are to be learned first.
Also do you do chi sau with your partner as a competition or as a training exercise? (slight difference in my opinion).

Top
#155256 - 06/13/05 08:15 PM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: MAGr]
someotherguy Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/05
Posts: 69
Quote:

I would love to know, where wing chun got its techniques from.
I ll list a few

Blocks:
Strikes:
Techniques:





The way I understand Wing Chun is that it has no blocks (or techniques really). I do not think is it practical to try to oppose a force from the opponent. Better to deflect/parry or directly counter-attack. So terms like "bong sao" do not refer to "blocking" concepts at all. Bong sao doesn't use the eblow to block, it is about deflecting an attack or avoiding a trapping.

Are you also sure that "push hands" is like "chi sao". Chi sao is more of a game, where you try to spontaneously apply what you understand Wing Chun to be. It is much more than the "double hands" exercise/drill.

Top
#155257 - 06/13/05 08:55 PM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: MAGr]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Interesting. My base art (American Kenpo) utilizes elbow blocks/deflections as well, but not as a codified technique...they are in the techniques, but you have to find them. They are not pointed out as such. WC is the only art I have seen where they are "pointed out", so to speak.

AKK also employs what they call "checks", which are very similar to the WC trapping techniques, so I had a model for how to utilize sensitivity excercises from that.

The rest was trial and error . It took a while, believe me. I can't believe I'm going to write this, but we actually used the tournament scenes (Bruce vs. Bob Wall) from "Enter the Dragon" as a model to begin our Chi Sao training.

Sounds really bad, I know. But it turned out to have very good functional application.

I am not sure I understand your competition/training question, but if I am reading it right, my answer is both.

We are actively trying to "score" on each other in a resistive format, but as a means of improving sensitivity.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#155258 - 06/14/05 05:40 AM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: MattJ]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
Although I am a big advocate of "find an instructor in your area" there is sometings in fils that can be translated, after you have a solid martial arts base. Also if you want to see a good wing chun film and believe there is only one, its called warriors.
Also in chi sau, try and feel the energy exchange of force that goes between you and your partner, it helps your sensitivity if you consciously think about energy flow.

Yes, good, chi sau is a way of improving sensitivity through scoring points.

As for the comment on bong sau and wing chun not having any blocks, I am aware that you dont use force against force and that they are redirections of force rather than block, but how would you call them so that you apply a common protocal with all MAs?

Top
#155259 - 06/14/05 05:49 AM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: MAGr]
Kosh Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/05
Posts: 302
Loc: Novo mesto, Slovenia
I think wing chun has some similarities with the filipino MA. Chi sau and lop sau are similar to hubud. I think that hubud is like doing bong sau, then tan sau and then striking.
Also, I think that a lot of wing chun is in some of the karate katas.
_________________________
Peter ...Understanding is a three-edged sword...

Top
#155260 - 06/14/05 05:49 PM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: Kosh]
18lohans Offline
Member

Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 321
Here's my stab at this:

First of all the way WC does chi sau seems very unique to WC. It is a tan/bong sau roll and a low to high fook sau. Other styles, such as Praying Mantis that do chi sau don't have a set pattern per se. They just touch hands and go with the flow, trying to stay sticky. I haven't experienced tai chi push hands yet, but I believe it's just involving deflection of energy/feeling energy. Techniques seem to come muhc later in tai chi training. I think I've seen a Hung Gar version of push hands. But I think it was more of a sensitity drill than the chi sau we're talking about.

Bong Sau, I'll agree with everyone else that it's a hand unique to wing chun. So unique to WC that it was featured in at least one magazine cover. I've heard the asking hand section from bil jee has crane/snake origins. The pigeon toed stance seems pretty unique to WC as well. Center line theory and such are heavily used in WC, but I've heard about it in many other styles. Hands like kwan sao and gan sao may be shaolin in origin. I've learned blocks similar to it. Differences are in angling of the body, etc. In summary, I think most of the wing chun hands are modified versions of other styles. Maybe bong sau's like taht too. It could've been an elbow technique in other styles, modified to be the bong sau in wing chun, much like gan sau came from the shaolin block I mentioned. Chain punching could've come from any style that used vertical punching.

As far as chi sau in tournaments, I've heard some wushu tournaments like UC Berkeley have a chi sau/push hand section. I personally only did chi sau in learning. It's a very efficient way to learn sensitivy and application of techniques, while being somewhat safe and controlled. I have very little problems seeing chi sau going full out combat, or giong a bit lighter into tournament style.

Sorry so lengthy, and hope this helps.


Edit: About the enter the dragon scene.. that is a wing chun type of chi sau, but not THE chi sau that wing chun is known for. The kind of chi sau I believe focuses more on bridging the gap. They are also a lot less sticky.


Edited by 18lohans (06/14/05 05:52 PM)

Top
#155261 - 06/24/05 03:36 PM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: MAGr]
Longduckdong Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 7
As I understand it Wing Chung is one of the three major styles that came out of the Shaolin Temple. It was created by a Shaolin Nun who created the system of deflection and infighting to suit her size relative to male martial artists. Meaning that because of her weaker body type she needed to avoide direct strikes and utilize her increased speed to get in and out quickly when fighting.

I take Shaolin Ch'uan Fa which incorporates all elements under the Kung Fu umbrella and I have been told is based upon the original style of Kung Fu practiced in the Shaolin Temple. We study a 5 animal system, which means that we learn techniques that apply to all different body types and physical abilities so that you can match your fighting style to your opponent.

To address your question about Wing Chung utilizing what the founder thought were the best techniques I have this to say. Every family style was created because that practitioner felt that certain movements were more effective for him or her to use in combat. A simple example might be a monk who was a good kicker decided to focus on mostly kicking techniques and developed his own style from there. That does not mean that everyone human can make these techniques work as effectively. That is why certain styles are better for certain body types and attitudes. Hung Gar is another style that came out of the Shaolin Temple, it is a Tiger Crane style that uses a lot of Tiger techniques to overwhelm the opponent. But if you are a small person trying to get Hung Gar techniques to work on a larger person you may have trouble because so much of getting techniques to work has to do with how you compare physically to your opponent. Some would argue that good technique will always win out but I would say that there can always be a wrong technique for the wrong occasion.

Top
#155262 - 06/24/05 04:30 PM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: MAGr]
pathfinder7195 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 336
Loc: T.C Michigan, U.S
That's the great thing about kung fu is that people don't get to caught up in styles or systems. The best kung fu teachers I've meet have all said the same thing "it doesn't matter the style, good kung fu is good kung fu"
My core style is choy li fut. But you can see the heavy influence of hung gar and chin na in there as well.
In reference to the chi sau drills we do them as well. But in our class it's not a pre-arranged set of movements like in wing chun. All styles have their own set of drills to gain "sensitivity". Even when I did boxing we would do drills where we would lean on each other with our forearms touching so we could gain sensitivity. You could feel the opponent drop to the right/left and you would jam their punch with your forearm because you always kept contact with their forearms. I boxed for 12 years off and on.
Bong sau is used in many different styles. Again we used it in boxing as well. Great way to deflect jabs. As the person jabs you lift up your elbow slightly.
In choy li fut the wooden dummy is mainly for conditioning whereas wing chun is used more for sensitivity.
The goal of good kung fu is not about styles but being able to generate good quick power from what ever position you are in.

Kevin

Top
#155263 - 06/26/05 02:13 AM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: someotherguy]
Neb Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 23
Loc: Tas, Australia
Quote:


The way I understand Wing Chun is that it has no blocks (or techniques really). I do not think is it practical to try to oppose a force from the opponent.




this is absolutely incorrect. Wing Chun focuses on centerline and low kicks, Wing Chun uses a block that just parries the attackers strike enough for it to miss the body, then with the same hand they strike, it is probably the most effortless style of Kung Fu, maybe in Martial Arts.

anyway, Wing Chun got some of it's techniques from Loong Chu (dragon)
_________________________
run before you fight fight before you injure injure before you maim maim before you kill

Top
#155264 - 06/26/05 10:45 AM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: pathfinder7195]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by Pathfinder7195 -

Quote:

Bong sau is used in many different styles.




Please name a few. I have never seen that taught as a codified technique in any other system.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#155265 - 06/26/05 11:02 AM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: MattJ]
monji112000 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/04
Posts: 177
Bong Sao means to tie up not WING ARM. This is a common misunderstanding. People watch too many movies get the wrong Idea.

I know that Hung gar, Jow Ga, CLF all have things called Bong Sao. Same thing with Du Ma, tan sao ,jee keun ect.. they are all general technique names. The actual movement isn't the same.. DUH
People add fancy names to make them "cool" but they all are basic ideas. Like wing arm they thing Wing chun has animal movements.. well maybe the Main Land version does.. but not the HK version.

If you look at different students on Ip man you will find different styles. Most are soft and short range... but I happen to know One disciple who isn't short range and is very hard.

Top
#155266 - 06/26/05 11:18 AM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: monji112000]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Don't play semantics, Monji.

Bong Sao is TAUGHT as "wing arm", no matter how you attempt to define it. I have not seen it taught AS THAT in any other style, as a codified part of it. Again, please show me examples.

The fact that WC uses it as a distinctive, purposely taught technique is the difference that I am refering to.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#155267 - 06/26/05 02:39 PM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: pathfinder7195]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
wing chun chi sau does NOT have a set of pre arranged movements. It has them in the beginning in order to tech you the movement so that you gain control and energy flow, but certainly not in the more advanced levels.

Top
#155268 - 06/26/05 02:43 PM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: MattJ]
pathfinder7195 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 336
Loc: T.C Michigan, U.S
Quote by MattJ

Bong Sao is TAUGHT as "wing arm", no matter how you attempt to define it. I have not seen it taught AS THAT in any other style, as a codified part of it. Again, please show me examples.

MattJ we don't do the bong sau excatly like wing chun but we do use blocks that use the lifting of the elbow to slip a punch. I did it in boxing and clf. I think that "distintive" bong sau look like in wing chun is done that way for proper form. My friend has been in wing chun for 3 years with several years in other arts and when we spar his bong sau block looks nothing like the block in the chi sau drills that we do.

Kevin

Top
#155269 - 06/27/05 05:18 AM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: Neb]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
Quote:

it is probably the most effortless style of Kung Fu, maybe in Martial Arts.





A lot of people take what you are saying (and I am not implying that you are) and translate it into lazy. They feel that because wing chun is not about meeting force with force that it is easy and that you dont need to condition your self or practice the drill till you drop. That is absolutely not true, if you are practising a martial art, however clever the techniques may be, you still have to make sure that the tool that delivers the technique is healthy and strong, otherwise you will be overpowered. Also you need to drill in the techniques otherwise in a pressurized environment it will simply not work, and you will result in flailing arms.

Also Neb,
Could you give me more info on Loong Chu?

Top
#155270 - 06/27/05 09:07 AM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: MAGr]
monji112000 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/04
Posts: 177
LOL This isn't a semantic

Do you also learn Dragon crushing the pearls?
Yes many BS Sifu's teach anything they want.. but if you translate Bong sao it means TO tie up. It is in every style.. because every style has something that ties up. Its a general term. Many styles have Tan sao ect..

IP man WC has NO direct animal movements, and NO WC isn't the most effective or effortless blah blah blah created.. its just a MA. Nothing is perfect ect..

What is a name? Take Bong Sao, if you pretend to say WING ARM you loose the meaning of the name. A name only helps you remember what the thing does.. Are you going to flap your bong sao?

You can't make general statements about WC or any Style or system. Everyone has a different view.

Some people teach blocking in WC( some teach covering).ect.. ect.. its all relative.


How did you learn to use your Bong Soa?
I have been told by someone to cave-in as soon as I get pressure..
I have been told also that you can use it for a good straight punch..

I have been taught to jam in or redirect ( tie up)
and if I want to cover against a straight punch to add the tan sao... because it will never completely cover any good straight punch (wc or western boxing punch)

if you look at the form as movements you loose allot. The form only shows theory's or ideas.. how to cover with the elbow ect..

Top
#155271 - 06/27/05 03:22 PM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: MAGr]
Laughing Dingo Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 17
Quote:

As far as I know, the consensus is that wing chun was created out of a mix of what "masters" then thought as the most effective techniques from the other kung fu styles.
As a wing chun practitioner, I have not, unfortunately come into contact with practitioners of other styles, and I would love to know, where wing chun got its techniques from.
I ll list a few
Blocks:
Bong Sau (wing arm)
Tan Sau (beggars hand)
Man Sau (asking hand)
Gan Sau
Dip Sau
Jum Sau

Strikes:
chain punches
biu gee finger strikes
cutting elbows
palm strikes
fat sau (chop)
Rear stamp kick
front kick
shin kick
elbow break etc..

Techniques:
lok sau
chi sau
wooden dummy (do other kung fu styles use this?)

Excuse my translations, but where did all this come from?
Is there a particular style that it came from?
What about the goat stance?
I would appreciate ANY insight into your respective arts.
Of course the names vary




Nearly every technique of Wing Chun can be found in one form or another in Hung Ga. Wooden dummies are used by Choy li fut, southern praying mantis, shaolin, etc. Chi Sao can be seen in southern praying mantis. White Crane of Fujien has many similar elements of Wing Chun, including the stance. In my opinion, Wing Chun is just a variation of the southern styles, a little more refined than and possibly lacking in some areas. Somewhere along the line Wing Chun turned into paddy cake paddy cake...

Bong Sao is worthless as a block, its a deflection at best and should transition into another movement asap. Bong sao needs to be used with shifting and not straight on. lop sao drills with bong sao are a complete waste of time in my opinion.

Top
#155272 - 06/27/05 04:33 PM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: MAGr]
BaguaMonk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/04
Posts: 404
Loc: DALLAS TX BABY
I love wing chung's methods of fighting. But I like the Shaolin footwork better, as well as xingyi footwork. btw I find xingyi works really well if you combine it with wingchung methods, but alot of the stiffness/structure has to be loosened.
_________________________
Truth comes from the absolute stillness of the mind...

Top
#155273 - 06/27/05 05:49 PM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: BaguaMonk]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
people have a seriously wrong impression of wing chun, either that or I am studying something different. Our footwork is very mobile and much more so because we dont use a very wide stance. The angling that we practice is a testiment to the footwork, getting in and out of the guard. Bridging the gap?. And paddy cake Paddy cake is a far cry away from what we do in class. Full contact fighting, pad work drills up the.., heavy bag.
The bong sau is a transitional move you dont block with a bong sau.

Top
#155274 - 06/27/05 06:02 PM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: Laughing Dingo]
monji112000 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/04
Posts: 177
Quote:



Nearly every technique of Wing Chun can be found in one form or another in Hung Ga.
Yes some people think they have the same origin.. that remains to be factual.




Wooden dummies are used by Choy li fut, southern praying mantis, shaolin, etc.
Many Shaolin styles use this training tool... prob because of their shared origin.
Quote:



Bong Sao is worthless as a block, its a deflection at best and should transition into another movement asap. Bong sao needs to be used with shifting and not straight on. lop sao drills with bong sao are a complete waste of time in my opinion.




every “block” is worthless. You can cover a great deal of space with a Bong and a Tan sao combined. I have seen many schools try to just put up movements like Bong, tan ect..
I don't really understand how they got the idea that this will work...??

I wish people would stop trying to fight in the basic neutral stance..
The list of complaints I have on most WC fighters is very long.. but I can't speak for them.... only myself.

You must move your whole body and apply proper force.

good attacks that I used bong+ tan for ...
high round kick (muay thai)
straight lead/cross (western boxing)
a strong pull down (like muay thai knee pull)
hook (western boxing)

I am sure others.. i just haven't learned them yet..



If you can find someone that can REALLY fight with any style.. and if he is a good teacher thats worth $1,000,000 .

ps.. WC has powerful Northern elements. You just don't see it in most version's of Ip man's style. Allot of people focus on short range.. and forget that you must get in.
Focus on everything.. don't stay stagnant.

Top
#155275 - 07/01/05 05:50 PM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: monji112000]
monji112000 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/04
Posts: 177
example of a lao sao
http://www.wingchunkungfu.cn/Mastermpg/092499za.mpg
first he covers everything with a tan-gan, then follows with a lop sao and a knee.

example of a bong sao +tan (qwan sao) used to stop a high round kick.
http://www.wingchunkungfu.cn/Mastermpg/102299d.mpg

another were bong is used to cover a area with a tan with.
http://www.wingchunkungfu.cn/Mastermpg/120899e.mpg
or
http://www.wingchunkungfu.cn/Mastermpg/121099f.mpg

its all in the way you use anything
Lop sao or bong sao

I didn't get permission from the people in the videos.. so please don't bash people who don't have a chance to respond.

Top
#155276 - 07/09/05 04:07 PM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: MAGr]
Fangshendo Offline
Member

Registered: 05/23/05
Posts: 26
Loc: Ottawa Ontario Canada
The style of kung fu I study is based on wing chun and jeet kune do.We use bong sao (high and low),the low bong sao looks a lot like a "wing" deflection in cali.Taun sao ,pak sao,die jung and guang sao are the other deflections we use.It is stressed in my system that we deflect,not block, as in other more traditional systems.A deflection is not based on power meeting power and is therefore more effective.Also a deflection can be turned into a strike very quickly.

Top
#155277 - 07/10/05 03:33 PM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: Fangshendo]
Laughing Dingo Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 17
Keep in mind that strong blocks are meant to hurt the attackers weapons. If you destoy the atacking arm, you may be much safer. Remeber the iron bidges. Wing Chun is not always the pansy art that so many make it seem.

Top
#155278 - 07/10/05 05:16 PM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: Laughing Dingo]
Fangshendo Offline
Member

Registered: 05/23/05
Posts: 26
Loc: Ottawa Ontario Canada
I am in no way trying to insinuate that wing chun is a pansy art.A strong deflection can also be used to inflict pain on an attacker's arm or leg.We do use blocks, such as a double arm block against a high roundhouse.This is very effective and when applied using proper body mechanics is devastating to the attacker's shin.All I was saying was that deflections are stressed more in my system than blocks.

Top
#155279 - 07/10/05 06:37 PM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: Fangshendo]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
As it should be in my opinion.
The strength of the block should be determined by the situation. You give soft blocks when they are over commiting their bodies for example to draw them in and unbalance them. On a hard hook I would jam it because a deflection may collapse under the pressure aswell as the fact that the harder they hit the more it would hurt them. But ofcourse there are exceptions. Just use the type of block that matches the other person's srike, I would not use the bong sau on a boxer for example, more pat sau and dip/gan sau (slapping block and 'iron forearm' blocks.)

Top
#155280 - 07/10/05 09:13 PM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: MAGr]
pathfinder7195 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 336
Loc: T.C Michigan, U.S
Good post MAGr. I wish I had used the word "deflection" instead of block in regards to the bong sau. Sorry you got raked over the coals on the "tricks" thread. I know what you meant.

Kevin

Top
#155281 - 07/11/05 08:50 AM Re: The melting pot of kung fu [Re: pathfinder7195]
monji112000 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/04
Posts: 177
I am sure other teachers have a different understanding but..

most techniques have a hard and soft way in WC. Hard would be direct and fast but dead on. This is good for some people .. but the main problem with these type of covering or blocking is that they can't take allot of power. If you are not as strong as the person punching or kicking your really out of luck. A softer,slower way is to redirect or deflect the persons attack. You can take much more power when you redirect.. because your not actually taking the power.

Timing is a big deal when looking at both sides

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  Cord, Gavin, JasonM, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Stun Guns
Variety of stun gun devices for your protection

Buy Pepper Spray
Worry about your family when you’re not around? Visit us today to protect everything you value.

Koryu.com
Accurate information on the ancient martial traditions of the Japanese samurai

C2 Taser
Protect yourself and loved ones from CRIME with the latest C2 Taser citizen model. Very effective.

 

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga