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#154009 - 06/13/05 10:45 AM Re: to meat or not to meat [Re: Kintama]
MAGr Offline

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
I love meat, I love the way it tastes, the way it smells, the way it looks, and I would give it up if someone gave me a good enough reason. But they havent. Humans are omnivors and someone said before not above our instincts. I go hunting, I eat what I hunt, If I manage to kill all I can eat within ten minutes I am not going to continue hunting, because killing is not a sport, but lets put things in perspective people.

All you European vegetarians out there listen to this:
Your farms, that produce the plants that you feed off to save the animals and to be "humane" are subsidised by the EU. Why? because agricultural goods are getting cheaper and cheaper and mais oui, we have to sustain our industrial organisation. But to what expense? The welfare of all African nations, why? because their imports which should be and are cheaper are being replaced by EU overproduction, and EU produces about twice as much food as is consumed, the rest is thrown in the sea. Why? so that the price remains low, instead of sending the plants to the dying people of Africa. So there is your vegeterianism. So the result is this, because you are eating vegetables, you are supporting the very product that is destroying Africa, YOU are part of the link that causes 30,000 children a DAY to die in Africa.
So lets get our priorities straight!
Forget vegetarianism, instead of being against people who eat meat, you should be against people who subsidize plants!

P.S. Have you guys heard of fruitarians, apparently there are people who not only will they not eat meat but who will not eat cooked plants (because you are killing them) and not only that but they will only eat fruit and vegetables that have fallen off (as opposed to picked off).
These people are a symptom of modern society and over-affluence!

#154010 - 06/13/05 11:54 AM Re: to meat or not to meat [Re: MAGr]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
huh? the long-term solution has NOTHING to do with peace, development and leadership in the continent? It all comes down to vegitarians, vegans and fruitarians in Europe? lol

Thats a first. Kinda like blaming global warming on the aids quilt.

#154011 - 06/13/05 12:04 PM Re: to meat or not to meat [Re: Kintama]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
I heard this story. In my house it went "Eat everything on your plate because somewhere in Africa is a hungry child." My reply was "Well, I hate broccoli...send it to them."

Seemed like a reasonable reply. One smack later, and a lesson in economics did nothing to ease hunger in Africa or persuade me that suffering broccoli would change things.

#154012 - 06/13/05 12:22 PM Re: to meat or not to meat [Re: Kintama]
MAGr Offline

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
Yes! Fruitarians are to blame! lol
Obviously not, I was making a mock/serious comment on how we should all get our priorities straight.
I am not saying that animal rights should not be looked after, but to tell people that its wrong to eat meat should be a lot lower on people's list of things to protest about.
And that maybe people should be more informed on things that they are protesting about, rather than just follow someone else's because they mayde a "good point".
And maybe if people concentrated their efforts, at least one thing would get sorted rather than fighting on 100 different fronts.

What is more outrageous?
1. We are pumping chickens with hormones to make them fatter and then eating them.

2.That X government (no names) said to impoverished-due-to-war country Y "we will give you $500 million of aid, if you buy from us $700 million worth of guns!" so basically give us all the money that is supposed to go to your people, an extra $200 million, and we will give you guns to make you even more miserable!

And as far as global warming is concerned, I alive in the UK and I have seen no evidence of warming whatsoever!

Edited by MAGr (06/13/05 12:23 PM)

#154013 - 06/13/05 12:29 PM Re: to meat or not to meat [Re: MAGr]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
I think this thread has veered far enough off course.

Come on guys, Meditation/Zen, not Politics/Global Warming.

#154014 - 06/13/05 12:43 PM Re: to meat or not to meat [Re: JoelM]
MAGr Offline

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
Sorry, my bad!

I am not at all familiar with the concepts of Zen, but as I understand it, it is to be a better person, then everyone does what they can to achieve that.
If you are a better person through being a vegetarian, then thats great.
IMO your kindness is best diverted elsewhere.

#154015 - 06/13/05 01:00 PM Re: to meat or not to meat [Re: Cord]
Foolsgold Offline

Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 1635
Loc: South Lyon, MI, USA
Cord-"Better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all".

I'll take that over "ignorance is bliss" any day.
Soy stupido, pero soy guapo!

#154016 - 06/13/05 02:50 PM Re: to meat or not to meat [Re: Foolsgold]
Alicia Offline

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 222
Loc: BC, Canada
I never thought that way about free range (killing happy animals). I just can't win. My body needs meat. I tried to eat no meat, and I became unwillingly underweight. I've tried to eat less meat, and now I might be iron-deficient. I have to have a blood test for anaemia today.
Why does eating seafood seem more acceptable than eating farm meat? If this is too un-zen-like, which I'm sure it is, please let me know.
"If someone asked me what a human being ought to devote the maximum of his life to, I would answer: training. Train more than you sleep."
~Mas Oyama~

#154017 - 06/13/05 03:25 PM Re: to meat or not to meat [Re: Alicia]
wolfscalissi Offline

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 103
Loc: austin, TX usa
Thank you all for your insightful and sometimes insensitive commentary. The only point of this thread was to ask how you felt. not to make you change your mind. we are each responsible for our own actions. awareness of these actions is what we must have in order to make clear and informed choices. I would ask you do not think"the Buddha I should..." do not think "well science says that humans are blah blah." ask your self. find the peace with your answer within yourself. do not take refuge in someone elses answer. science is a theory, do you understand?. Zen Buddhism is a philosophydo you see? do not let any one tell you what the flower smells like. of what value is this? smell the flower for yourself. then and only then will you know the truth. thank you again for indulging this thread.

Warning! objects in mirror are not as enlightened as they appear.

#154018 - 06/13/05 03:26 PM Re: to meat or not to meat [Re: MAGr]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
my fault for 'steering' off 'course'... (double pun!)

my conclusion of the 'meat' meets Zen question: I am an eater of living things. to exclude some and include others is judging. It's anything or between seems hypocritical.

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