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#153646 - 07/01/05 12:59 PM Re: Funny video on Dillman student. [Re: Kosh]
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Quote:

GSD, I`ve never heard of James Lacy (I think). Who is he and can you reccomend some books?




Lacy is a person who studied for a while with GM Doo Wai (of White Tiger GungFu). He has some videos from Panther Prod. and on his own website. I've spoken to him on several occasions and he is very helpful. His life and lifestyle have been the subject of much controversy.

Just google for 'coconut break' and you'll find him.

Quote:

Kempoman have you ever read "The end of time" by Jiddu Krishnamurti and David Bohm? Hard book to read, but if I remember correctly, in it Krishnamurti says something about wanting to be greater, to be better, to be something else is the cause of suffering.




No I haven't, but I'll check it out. Love to read.

Quote:

Kempoman I think you`re talking about sound KOs? An interesting explanation, but what is an amygdala?




Yes, I think that you are correct. They are calling them sound KO's. The explanation is a very well documented natural physiological process and I feel that they either know that they are using it or have stumbled into using it...but they are using it.

The amygdala is a small almond-shaped area of the brain that is very heavily involved in the fear response mechnism. Call it fight-or-flight or Body Alarm Reaction it is regulated by this area of the brain. Scientists have been doing studies into this are for some time and are now beginning to understand what is happening. It is also believed to be involved with rapid-programming of human behaviour.

You can do some very cool things with it as far as making people miss you when they strike and other such things.

Quote:

I think the debate in this thread was pretty good and "civilized" in comparison to some other threads (here or on other forums).




I agree. These subjects usually go bad really fast. It speaks volumes for everyone posting here.

--KM
_________________________
Yeah, if you want to get dry-humped and dookie-licked.

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#153647 - 07/01/05 01:41 PM Re: Funny video on Dillman student. [Re: Kempoman]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Quote:

You can do some very cool things with it as far as making people miss you when they strike and other such things.




It as a lot to do with deceptive movement, peripheral vision and it's link to the amygdale and how it's hard wired. There has been discussion here in a few different threads about this. It's referred to as choshi dori in some Japanese systems. Is there a "Chinese" version?
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#153648 - 07/01/05 02:40 PM Re: Funny video on Dillman student. [Re: laf7773]
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Quote:

It as a lot to do with deceptive movement, peripheral vision and it's link to the amygdale and how it's hard wired. There has been discussion here in a few different threads about this. It's referred to as choshi dori in some Japanese systems. Is there a "Chinese" version?




Not that I am immediately aware of. I have spoken with Dale Seago about the chosi dori stuff and he is who pointed me down the path of the studying the amygdala.

This area of the fear response mechinism, body alarm reaction and rapid behaviour programming is a gold-mine.

Scott
_________________________
Yeah, if you want to get dry-humped and dookie-licked.

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#153649 - 07/01/05 03:22 PM Re: Funny video on Dillman student. [Re: Kempoman]
BaguaMonk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/04
Posts: 404
Loc: DALLAS TX BABY
I agree with you for the most part laff. These gimmicks are almost as bad as the iron body tricks. Even those aren't as bad, because they are just training tools to aid in controlling chi/blood flow. But alot of these supposed knock outs, and no touch knockouts, are heavily influenced by the power of suggestion, fear (of teacher), an idolization. I wes once a victim of this, and sometimes when he would do the pressure point presses/grabs, I would purposefully drop, or sometimes even feel pain just so he wouldn't get mad at me. I don't mean to generalize, but most kempo instructors, don't impress me in any way, shape, or form. Wether its their practicec (which usually is pretty lifeless), forms, techniques, ego trips, etc. I'm just not impressed, in particular with this "Dim Mak" stuff, it exists...but not the way I have seen Kempo instructors teach it.
_________________________
Truth comes from the absolute stillness of the mind...

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#153650 - 07/02/05 02:38 AM Re: Funny video on Dillman student. [Re: Kempoman]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
I gathered a little info form him as well then went on to find out what i could. I came across a bit about "Hijacking the amygdala" that explains a bit as to why choshi dori works.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#153651 - 07/05/05 03:49 PM Re: Funny video on Dillman student. [Re: laf7773]
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
A little more on how this short-circuiting or 'hijacking' of the amygdala as Lane nicely put it works and how it is related to this new Sound NTKO demonstration.

Our eyes take in visual cues and stimulation which is passed to the thalamus. The thalamus kind of decides where the information should go, in this case the visual cortex. The visual cortex analyzes the input (impulse) and then decides where to send it. If it is decided that there is something to get excited about then the signal is sent to the amygdala, the hippocampus is consulted for the 'appropriate' reaction and cocktail. However if a potiential threat is realized it will bypass the visual cortex and send the signal straight to the amygdala. In this pattern the amygdala can only react based on previously stored patterns.

Now how this relates to the NTSKO.

If you notice the qi master will allow the subject to punch them in the stomach several times with success. This will establish a pattern of the normal path of eyes-thalamus-visual cortex with no need to send the signal to the amygdala. Then without any prior notification on the next attempted punch, the qi master makes a threatening motion toward coupled with a kiai.

This is perceived as a direct threat and causes the thalamus to route the input directly to the amygdala. The amygdala has no option to consult the hippocampus for the appropriate reaction and must react based on previous behaviour. This causes the subject to fall and cover, the shocked nature of the subject is a result of the nice 'cocktail' that has been released as a result.


Make any sense?

--KM
_________________________
Yeah, if you want to get dry-humped and dookie-licked.

Top
#153652 - 07/05/05 07:20 PM Re: Funny video on Dillman student. [Re: Kempoman]
Kosh Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/05
Posts: 302
Loc: Novo mesto, Slovenia
I think it makes sense. But what if the person doing the NTSKO tells the person being KOed what he will do. I`ve seen a clip of a sound KO and the master told when he was going to do it.

Now kiai and energy transfer aside, do you think that "hijacking" the amygdala is useful in reality?
_________________________
Peter ...Understanding is a three-edged sword...

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#153653 - 07/16/05 12:53 PM Re: Funny video on Dillman student. [Re: Kosh]
BaguaMonk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/04
Posts: 404
Loc: DALLAS TX BABY
I hate to say it, but "no." Just MO.

Its a cool gimmick, and party trick though. Maybe it will help in new student registrations.
_________________________
Truth comes from the absolute stillness of the mind...

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#153654 - 07/18/05 08:24 PM Re: Funny video on Dillman student. [Re: BaguaMonk]
Savatuer Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/18/05
Posts: 15
This has probably been posted before, but I didn't bother to read every post. Now, the reason I believe that these pressure points work on students and not outside people like those reporters is that the students have had an extreme buildup of fear of the effects of these techniques before expierencing them done on themselves.

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#153655 - 07/20/05 12:18 AM Re: Funny video on Dillman student. [Re: BaguaMonk]
Citrushead Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 6
Loc: Seattle, WA
By the way, not sure if anyone caught this, but one of the JJ guys he tries it on is Stephan Bonner from the UFC reality show that was on Spike TV.

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